I was surprised to read that the 2 bottom trim levels of the

new Passat do not come with automatic headlights. You have

to spring for the third trim level (called Lux) to get the
automatics. Kinda surprised me. All trims are turbo, though,
even the bottom trim. The little 4-cylinder (just 2.0 liter)
engine can put out 200 horsepower.

The Jetta, assembled in Mexico, now comes with a 5th cylinder.
It's an inline 5, and boasts 2.5 liters, more than my 2.4 liter
Camry. But Consumer Reports says Volkswagen isn't known for
its long-term reliability. A Consumer Reports survey of owners
listed the '06 Passat as one of the least reliable family cars,
but it drives really good, nice handling.

The King of Reliability is Toyota, even besting Honda, which
is the Queen, a close second to Toyota. Info coming from the
April, 2007, issue.

Nissan (and its luxury nameplate Infiniti) is all over the map
in reliability, from good reliability for some models to
downright poor reliablility for other Nissan and Infiniti
models (info based on 2006 survey for 3 most recent
model years' data).

Subaru and Hyundai also did respectably well in the survey.
All the other manufacturers, though, showed wide ranges in
reliability from poor to bad--similar to Nissan's showing.

Mercedes-Benz was at the bottom of the 36-nameplate heap,
which really surprised me. Every time I get a hankering
for a German car, I just gotta read Consumer Reports and
I change my mind about wanting a German car (or even a U.S.
car, I'm sad to say).

I'm sure U.S. cars are improving dramatically, though.
This was Consumer Reports '06 survey, 2 years old now, so
it didn't include '07 and '08 models. Some Mercury models
did really well in the survey, as did some Lincoln models, but
some other Lincoln and Mercury models scored badly in the 3-year
reliability survey. However, an outstanding Lincoln stand-out
is the Lincoln Zephyr (or Lincoln MKZ which it was later known as).

Going back to Mercedes for a second, in the survey, an
8-year-old Lexus scored better in reliablity than a new
Mercedes-Benz ML500. (Yow.) Consumer Reports says the
Lexus LS tops its survey, year in and year out. The
1998 Lexus LS400 "had fewer problems than the 2006
Mercedes-Benz ML500"--remember this survey was done
in 2006, two years ago, so they were comparing an 8-year-old car to a
new car.

The top 7 nameplates were:

1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Scion (a Toyota brand)
4) Acura (Honda luxury brand)
5) Lexus (Toyota luxury brand)
6) Subaru
7) Hyundai (but Hyundai's subsidiary Kia didn't do so well)

All other companies' nameplates had some models which turned
in less-than-average 3-year reliability scores. As mentioned,
some models for the companies really excelled, but other models
from the same companies did poorly.

BMW, another German car I've desired before reading
Consumer Reports, didn't do so well either.

The BMW 7-series was among the least reliable luxury cars, along
with the Jaguar S-Type. BMW, as a whole, scored in the middle
of the 36 name-plate bunch.

Some of the least reliable small cars were the Chevrolet Cobalt,
the 5-cylinder Volkswagen Jetta, and the Chevy Aveo.

There were over 1.3 million cars reported on in the 2006 Consumer
Reports Annual Car Reliablity Survey.

Looking at more long-term data, the 1999 BMW 5 Series V8 had
the worst engine cooling problem rate, with 34 percent. "In
addition, 2000 to 2001 BMW 5 Series V8 and BMW 7-Series all
had about 30 percent of their owners reporting engine-cooling
woes."

A quote from the article:

"More than half of the 2004 Infiniti QX56, Nissan Armada, and
Nissan Titan owners reported a brake problem. And almost half
of 2005 Armada and Titan owners also reported brake problems."

Now this Acura thing surprised me:

"Nearly a quarter of owners of the 2001 Acura CL reported
a bad tansmission problem, and nearly the same percentage of
1999 Volvo XC70s were reported to suffer from fuel-system problems."

Damn, everytime I think of expanding my horizons beyond
Toyota, cold, hard survey data and results bring me back,
keeping me loyal to Toyota.

Built_Well <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote:
Not that Toyota products are bad in any way, but this survey is pretty
much useless because it considers all reliability issues to be the same.
A car with a lot of warranty tickets on broken glove box hinges and a
car with a lot of warranty tickets on blown engines are considered the
same way.

Some of the surveys that have done breakdowns on individual issues bring
some really interesting stuff up. For example, there are a whole lot of
repair tickets opened up on BMW's iDrive system, which are related to the
system having horrible user interface design rather than actually being
unreliable. People can't get it work right, not because it's actually broken
but because it's difficult to use. These sorts of things should not be
considered if you are actually trying to measure reliability, although they
do belong in an overall survey of customer satisfaction.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Jul 23, 11:38*am, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
IMHO CR is full of crap WRT VW. Probably they just don't take a long
term enough view. I wish I hadn't sold my '84 Scirocco; that was the
most reliabile, bulletproof car I've ever owned. The problem with VWs
is they do tend to have teething problems when new, which reflects
badly on surveys, but they will run for literally decades with only
regular maintenance.

That said, I would steer clear of the B-chassis models (Passat) and
stick with the A-chassis (Rabbit, Jetta, Scirocco, Golf) as the Passat
is known for finicky electrics.

Of course, if the nicer trim and better driving qualities of the VW
aren't important to you, it is also hard to go wrong with Toyota. I'm
a die hard VW fan, but even so, I have to give some grudging respect
to Toyota for continuously churning out reliable, durable vehicles as
well.

The VW 20V turbo 4-cylinders (1.8T and now 2.0T) are just ludicrous.
If you think you want to stick with Toyota you should probably never
drive one. The torque is intoxicating. I would love to get a pre-82
Scirocco (or maybe a Corrado G60, or a Porsche 924) and drop a 1.8T or
2.0T in it, that would just be a stupidly quick combination.

nate

N8N wrote:

Well, N8N, here's the exact quote from Consumer Reports about the
Volkswagen / Audi company (I guess they merged a few years ago):

VW/Audi:

"These cars test well, but long-term reliability has been poor.
Recommended models include most Audis but only one VW."

"Highs: Fit and finish, acceleration, crash-test results, handling,
standard safety equipment.

Lows: Controls, reliability."

On Jul 23, 12:10*pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I believe you, but they are simply wrong. Reliability, and more
importantly durability, are VW's strongest points. About the only way
to thoroughly kill a VW is to wreck it or let it rust out. Barring
that, no matter what goes wrong, it'll always be cheaper to fix it
than replace it. And really, not much does go wrong - any problems
you're likely to have will not prevent you from getting where you're
going.

nate

On 7/23/08 10:46 AM, in article
b3596bce-7a72-4a44-aa19-3516ca9d1747...oglegroups.com, "N8N"
<njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote:

My experience with VW says CR is dead on. My '79 Rabbit was beyond all
doubt the worst car I ever owned. The engine compartment ground bundle
located directly beneath the drip spout under the battery epitomized the
stupid engineering that went into that car.

"E Meyer" <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:C4ACE3F9.32D70%epmeyer50@msn.com...
VW has had numerous electrical problems. Many of these problems are rather
serious, i.e., car is DOA.

On Jul 23, 2:34*pm, E Meyer <epmeye...@msn.com> wrote:
I've had quite a few 80's era watercooled VWs over the years and I can
honestly say that only two were in any way finicky - my '89 GTI 16V,
because it was a resurrected "barn car" (once I replaced pretty much
any accessory with bearings, it was quite reliable - I eventually sold
it to a friend who drove it daily until a year or two ago when she
sold it) and SWMBO's '90 Corrado G60, because it's a Corrado and those
aren't up to normal VW standards.

My cars were not pampered - sat outside 24/7, expected to start on a
moment's notice after sitting for a week or more, be able to drive up
and down the east coast without any preparation, etc. and they never
let me down.

nate

Consumers Reports only gathers information about late model cars (they
report the reliability by model and year). Statistical information is
obtained from Consumer Reports subscribers in a survey they send out to
readers.

On Jul 23, 3:05*pm, N8N <njna...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Actually upon reflection I lied. The alternator on the roccet died on
me while driving between Detroit and Annapolis. at only 240K miles.
cheapass POS.

nate

"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdf788cd-24bd-4ca3-8ae8-510dd160f946@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 23, 2:34 pm, E Meyer <epmeye...@msn.com> wrote:
I've had quite a few 80's era watercooled VWs over the years and I can
honestly say that only two were in any way finicky - my '89 GTI 16V,
because it was a resurrected "barn car" (once I replaced pretty much
any accessory with bearings, it was quite reliable - I eventually sold
it to a friend who drove it daily until a year or two ago when she
sold it) and SWMBO's '90 Corrado G60, because it's a Corrado and those
aren't up to normal VW standards.

My cars were not pampered - sat outside 24/7, expected to start on a
moment's notice after sitting for a week or more, be able to drive up
and down the east coast without any preparation, etc. and they never
let me down.


====


I had two VW Golfs (1.8 petrol - a 1988 Mark II and a 1993 Mark III). I was
generally very pleased with them, though they were fairly expensive to
maintain because of the high cost of parts, even in the UK which is not as
far from Germany as, for example, the USA is.

The first car (which had a carburettor) had a problem with its automatic
choke which occasionally in hot weather made the engine race - very
embarrassingly once when I got stuck in a traffic jam on the infamous M25
motorway ("London's orbital car-park"!) and I had to turn off the engine
every time I came to a stand-still and then slip the clutch like mad to
crawl forward a few feet. But that was fixed fairly quickly and under
warranty.

The second one developed an annoying problem where the engine kept losing
power or hesitating. It kept going back to the garage and they could never
find anything. Eventually they decided to keep it for a week and loan me
another car in the meantime so they could give it a good test. On the last
day the mechanic rang up in a state of considerable elation and yelled "It's
just gone wrong! I know what it is! I've fixed it!" - it was the throttle
sensor which detects the position of the throttle pedal and feeds the info
to the engine management unit: this had developed a fault. The component
cost a few quid but the labour was going to be several hundred pounds...
until I was able to produce a garage receipt showing that the car was still
within the mileage limit for the warranty when I first reported the fault,
so VW head office eventually agreed to pay up.

The first car was lovely - much more lively than the other one though the
power and torque were very similar. Only slight design flaw: the sill at the
base of the windscreen had tiny drain holes into the wheel arches and these
easily got blocked. Once day after torrential rain overnight I got into the
car and found I was paddling in six inches of water! Having got the majority
of the water out with buckets and mopped up with towels, I then spent one
weekend removing the seats and then the carpet so I could wash the carpets
(which had started to smell - especially the underlay). It was weird driving
around with bare metal floor and only my seat ;-)

Fuel economy was not brilliant - about 30-35 mpg (UK) which is about 24-28
mpg (US).

I now have a Peugeot 306 diesel which has just done 129,000 miles and is
still going strong after nine years. 50-55 mpg, bullet-proof, starts first
time every time whatever the weather. But it's getting to the age when
expensive things are starting to need attention: new catalytic converter,
replacement cambelt (scheduled), two new fanbelts (unplanned - second one
was because garage that fitted first one didn't notice that a pulley was
wobbly so it took out the belt after about a month - GRRRRR!).

I'm not sure what I'd replace it with because I don't like the Peugeot 307
or 308, and the VW Golf is very expensive for what it is and, like so many
modern cars, has one of these not-fit-for-purpose spacesaver spare wheels.
Also the rear seats don't remove so I wouldn't be able to carry my bicycle
as easily. The Honda Civic (new shape) and the Citroen C4 are gimmicky
(digital instruments in the centre of the dashboard).

Ford and Vauxhall - boring!

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Exactly. And if Toyota is so great, how come we STILL see more 87 Buicks
on the road than 87 Toyotas? They didn't sell more that many more Buicks
at that time, they just lasted longer in the end, even if they were less
"reliable" (according to CR) up front.

Same in reverse for Mercedes. Consumer Retards considers a broken radio
to be the same level of "unreliability" as a hole in the side of the
cylinder block where a connecting rod departed.... USELESS info. EVERY
single person I know who owns a Mercedes would gladly own another.
They're not the heaps CR makes them out to be.

On Jul 23, 10:38*am, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
tnx for the post but CR is a jack of all trades master of none ...

Built_Well turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

<useless drivel snipped>

I'm so happy to hear that.

I gave up on CR about twenty years ago. They have always had an imperfect
ranking - comparing an issue with a turn signal stalk equivelant to a
problem with head gaskets.

Also, pretty much any car/truck these days will be good/bad depending on the
amount of abuse it takes and the designer. GM may have five bad cars and
ten good ones. Do all make the survey? Toyota/Lexus/Scion may have five
bad cars and four good ones. Do all make the survey?



--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org

Built_Well wrote:
My sister is leasing an 06 Corolla. So far, her opinion is that she
wishes she had her 2000 Neon back. Her complaints - battery problems,
noisy, lousy gas mileage. And yes, a Neon owner said a Toyota Corolla
is noisy. Needless to say she's not keeping it past the lease.

Ray

"Mortimer" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:zOqdnTjDGKy8GhrVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusn et...


And Peugeot in the US... cannot be had. Too bad as they seem to perform
beautifully now days, but crashed and burned when they were in the states.

Willy

Scott is so right. A sludged up engine and a fallen off trim both
count as 1 problem.



On Jul 23, 8:45*am, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
Not so fast, Steve. I owned one and have no desire to ever own one again.
Extremely expensive to keep up and repair and part costs are just
outrageous, and no more reliable than a Chevy. I even bought a shop manual
so I could tell the dealer how to fix some of the problems I had with it.

I knew another owner. He sold his while it was up on the lift at the dealer
for the umpteenth time and bought a Plymouth instead.

Oh, and a broken radio would probably cost about the same as buying a
Pontiac to replace out of warranty.

Some of you folks keep repeating the same thing that a
sticking glove box is made out to be the same as an
engine cooling problem. However, Consumer Reports does
break down and itemize the problems into 16 categories,
which are:

Engine problem, major
Engine problem, minor
Engine Cooling
Transmission
Drive system
Fuel system
Electrical
Climate system
Suspension
Brakes
Exhaust
Paint/Trim
Body integrity
Body hardware
Power equipment
Audio system

The J.D. Powers surveys also rank Toyota highly

On Jul 23, 11:38*am, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Consumer Reports is a great big joke, always has been, and always will
be. Cant believe, in the age of the internet, they are even still in
business. I would be interested to know their subscription numbers
now, as opposed to their heyday period during the mid-80's, when
millions of Americans let CR think for them and choose the products
that they wanted to buy for them.




How the hell can a company that RECALLS more vechicles than it SELLS
be "the king of reliability"???????


Because CR deems it so, therefore, it must be so, I guess.




Ludicrus!





American nameplates have been on at LEAST, on even par, quality-wise,
with the all-mighty Japanese nameplates for at least the past 20
years, statistically or otherwise. For some reason, CR, and the media
continue to sing the virtues of the foreign models over the American
nameplates.






Yeah, if I wanted to buy a car, but CM told me not to, I probably
wouldn't buy it, either.

Like I said in a post a while back, someone a little older and wiser
than I am once told me, "Son, if God had intended for Comsumer Reports
to think for you, he wouldn't have given you a brain."