Well, you cross posting dirtbag, I get my chops busted for top posting....
You, however, cross post to several NGs - one of them a Ford NG and you post
some kind of cut and paste drivel that doesn't seem to mention the word Ford
not even once....


"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:819f3d8b-c814-4cd7-88a1-449b35037f73@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Enough with the cross posting, already...

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:819f3d8b-c814-4cd7-88a1-449b35037f73@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

And you're cross posting because.... ?

<mechanic@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:yxThk.1307$%b7.1054@edtnps82...
| Enough with the cross posting, already...


| "Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:819f3d8b-c814-4cd7-88a1-449b35037f73@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
| >
| > I was surprised to read that the 2 bottom trim levels of the
| >
| > new Passat do not come with automatic headlights. You have
| >
| > to spring for the third trim level (called Lux) to get the
| > automatics. Kinda surprised me. All trims are turbo, though,
| > even the bottom trim. The little 4-cylinder (just 2.0 liter)
| > engine can put out 200 horsepower.
| >
| > The Jetta, assembled in Mexico, now comes with a 5th cylinder.
| > It's an inline 5, and boasts 2.5 liters, more than my 2.4 liter
| > Camry. But Consumer Reports says Volkswagen isn't known for
| > its long-term reliability. A Consumer Reports survey of owners
| > listed the '06 Passat as one of the least reliable family cars,
| > but it drives really good, nice handling.
| >
| > The King of Reliability is Toyota, even besting Honda, which
| > is the Queen, a close second to Toyota. Info coming from the
| > April, 2007, issue.
| >
| > Nissan (and its luxury nameplate Infiniti) is all over the map
| > in reliability, from good reliability for some models to
| > downright poor reliablility for other Nissan and Infiniti
| > models (info based on 2006 survey for 3 most recent
| > model years' data).
| >
| > Subaru and Hyundai also did respectably well in the survey.
| > All the other manufacturers, though, showed wide ranges in
| > reliability from poor to bad--similar to Nissan's showing.
| >
| > Mercedes-Benz was at the bottom of the 36-nameplate heap,
| > which really surprised me. Every time I get a hankering
| > for a German car, I just gotta read Consumer Reports and
| > I change my mind about wanting a German car (or even a U.S.
| > car, I'm sad to say).
| >
| > I'm sure U.S. cars are improving dramatically, though.
| > This was Consumer Reports '06 survey, 2 years old now, so
| > it didn't include '07 and '08 models. Some Mercury models
| > did really well in the survey, as did some Lincoln models, but
| > some other Lincoln and Mercury models scored badly in the 3-year
| > reliability survey. However, an outstanding Lincoln stand-out
| > is the Lincoln Zephyr (or Lincoln MKZ which it was later known as).
| >
| > Going back to Mercedes for a second, in the survey, an
| > 8-year-old Lexus scored better in reliablity than a new
| > Mercedes-Benz ML500. (Yow.) Consumer Reports says the
| > Lexus LS tops its survey, year in and year out. The
| > 1998 Lexus LS400 "had fewer problems than the 2006
| > Mercedes-Benz ML500"--remember this survey was done
| > in 2006, two years ago, so they were comparing an 8-year-old car to a
| > new car.
| >
| > The top 7 nameplates were:
| >
| > 1) Toyota
| > 2) Honda
| > 3) Scion (a Toyota brand)
| > 4) Acura (Honda luxury brand)
| > 5) Lexus (Toyota luxury brand)
| > 6) Subaru
| > 7) Hyundai (but Hyundai's subsidiary Kia didn't do so well)
| >
| > All other companies' nameplates had some models which turned
| > in less-than-average 3-year reliability scores. As mentioned,
| > some models for the companies really excelled, but other models
| > from the same companies did poorly.
| >
| > BMW, another German car I've desired before reading
| > Consumer Reports, didn't do so well either.
| >
| > The BMW 7-series was among the least reliable luxury cars, along
| > with the Jaguar S-Type. BMW, as a whole, scored in the middle
| > of the 36 name-plate bunch.
| >
| > Some of the least reliable small cars were the Chevrolet Cobalt,
| > the 5-cylinder Volkswagen Jetta, and the Chevy Aveo.
| >
| > There were over 1.3 million cars reported on in the 2006 Consumer
| > Reports Annual Car Reliablity Survey.
| >
| > Looking at more long-term data, the 1999 BMW 5 Series V8 had
| > the worst engine cooling problem rate, with 34 percent. "In
| > addition, 2000 to 2001 BMW 5 Series V8 and BMW 7-Series all
| > had about 30 percent of their owners reporting engine-cooling
| > woes."
| >
| > A quote from the article:
| >
| > "More than half of the 2004 Infiniti QX56, Nissan Armada, and
| > Nissan Titan owners reported a brake problem. And almost half
| > of 2005 Armada and Titan owners also reported brake problems."
| >
| > Now this Acura thing surprised me:
| >
| > "Nearly a quarter of owners of the 2001 Acura CL reported
| > a bad tansmission problem, and nearly the same percentage of
| > 1999 Volvo XC70s were reported to suffer from fuel-system problems."
| >
| > Damn, everytime I think of expanding my horizons beyond
| > Toyota, cold, hard survey data and results bring me back,
| > keeping me loyal to Toyota.
|
|

"Willy" <wesk@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:SyQhk.31020$co7.19059@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
It's strange which cars are and aren't sold in a given country. It's only
very recently (maybe the last five or ten years) that American cars such as
Cadillac have been sold in the UK.

"Mortimer" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:MLOdnXPWqIaCohXVnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@posted.plusn et...
The case of Peugeot and Renault are different than GM. GM and Ford have
always manufactured and sold cars in Europe, which are tailored to the
European market. A lot of Ford and GM cars sold in the US are
inappropriately sized for the European market, where gas prices are double,
streets are narrow, travel distances are shorter, etc. Of course many of
these same cars are now inappropriate for the US also, now that gas prices
have increased.

Peugeot and Renault both suspended marketing in the US, not because the cars
where inappropriately sized or featured, but because their cars simply could
not compete in terms of reliability compared to Japanese, German, Swedish,
or even American cars. They left the US market for the same reason that Yugo
left, the cars were junk. The same was true of Fiat, but to a somewhat
lesser degree. In the 1970's I almost bought a used Fiat 124 coupe (a great
car) but could not bring myself to pull the trigger because they had so many
mechanical problems (and at the time I had little money for repairs).

Perhaps Peugeot and Renault are improved now, but there are still way too
much competition in the US for the French automakers.

One reason that US cars like Cadillac are now appearing in Europe is that
they have produced smaller and more sophisticated models in recent years
(some of them with sheet metal actually designed in Italy), and more
importantly, the price has been slashed by more than 50% due to the
weakening of the US dollar against the British Pound and the Euro. Nothing
strange about that.

Not to start another rant, but J.D. Powers will rank highly whoever pays
them. That's why you see the auto company ads stating "Best vehicle of the
year according to JDP" and 4 different companies have 4 different models
each that won. Kinda hard to believe that every vehicle out there is the
"Best of the year." But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong. . .

SC Tom

Calab turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:


And you're top-posting because....?

Oh, Wintendo luzer. Nevermind.

Carry on.


--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
Do I know you? ;-)


No argument that they're no more reliable than a Chevy and that parts
costs are stupid-high. But no LESS reliable either- everything from Kia
to Toyota to Ford to Mercedes is really pretty comparable these days.
But the people I know who own them consider the way they drive, the
comfort, the quiet, etc. to be worth the cost of parts, but they
typically have NOT had excessive problems. I'm not even arguing that its
not placebo effect and status symbol effect that makest them like the
cars (I sure as hell would RATHER have a Plymouth than a Mercedes, even
if someone said "pick one of these for free) but my point is that the
real world doesn't align with the CR world... again.


That's what Circuit City is for....

Along with the Mercury Zephyr (later known as the MKZ) that I
mentioned
yesterday as a good Mercury product, the Mercury Grand Marquis is
also a very reliable car, according to the C.R. surveys. I think my
uncle once owned a Grand Marquis years ago, and I wouldn't mind
owning
a used one today. Reliable car, the Grand Marquis.

I'd stay away from the Mercury Mountaineer, though--lots of
transmission
problems from 2001 to 2006.

The Lincoln Town Car is another domestic stand-out that would be
good to own, except for the '03 model year (lotsa drive system and
power
equipment complaints for '03).

However, I'd stay away from the Lincoln Navigator entirely. It's '01
to
'06 models are plagued with all kinds of problems: transmission,
electrical,
suspension, brakes, etc.

Some rude fella asked why I cross-posted my original message in the
Ford newsgroup when the word "Ford" doesn't appear once in the
article.
He must not realize that the Mercury and Lincoln name-plates are Ford
products, and I mentioned the Mercury MKZ in the original post.

Consumer Reports does not treat all car problems the same. Quote
from
their Annual Auto Issue:

"Because problems with major engine components, engine cooling,
transmission, and drive systems can be more serious and expensive
to repair, our calculations give extra weight to them."

"SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> wrote in message
news:thZhk.7120$CY7.3888@newsfe06.iad...
JD Powers collects data to sell to auto companies. They publish part of the
data in an effort to create a brand, but they sell a lot more information
than they give away.

I believe the JD Powers data (as far as it goes) is more reliable than the
CR data. I have filled out surveys for both. The CR data collection scheme
is rudimentary, non-random, and the data reporting scheme is designed to
emphasize very small differences. People who defend CRs data like to
emphasize the fact that CR doesn't take money from advertisers. While true,
it is irrelevant. CR has to please the subscribers and keep them interested
in buying the magazine. Suppose they started saying that all cars were
pretty much the same - would that make for a "must have magazine?" CR slants
their reports to suit their own needs (the need to attract and keep
subscribers and to promote their particular somewhat nanny state agenda). I
enjoy reading CR, but I am never going to confuse their reporting with
absolute truth.

Ed

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:819f3d8b-c814-4cd7-88a1-449b35037f73@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

<Snip Crap>

Why is it some of you Toyonuts are always cross-posting or Trolling the GM
newsgroups? We don't come to your group and cause shit, or disrespect you.
Have some respect.

As for this, I honestly don't know which is worse. Someone who believes CR
provides "cold, hard data and results", or someone who purchases something
just because they were told to by said magazine.

"80_Knight" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gsSdnbycgLN4XxfVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@giganews.com ...
Why do you think it is the Toyota people cross posting the GM group? It
seems like CR auto survey results would be of general interest to people
interested in cars (no matter whether you consider the results important or
not). The OP started out talking about VWs, not Toyotas. Certainly some
Toyota fans posted follow-ups, but aren't you interested in the opinion of
others - even people who like Toyotas? Once a discussion starts out posted
to numerous groups, isn't it reasonable to post replies to all the same
groups? I hate it when threads get dropped in the middle.

People like to have their choices validated. I've always thought that at
least some people who purchase cars sold by foreign manufacturers feel a
little guilty and need for others to provide them with support for there
decision. That way they can justify sending jobs / profits off shore. CR
provides that support for a lot of Toyota buyers. I have also felt there was
a positive feedback mechanism in the CR surveys. CR says Toyotas are good,
so CR readers who own Toyotas tend to shade there responses to match this
opinion. Don't get me wrong, I think Toyota builds reliable cars, but they
are only marginally better than average and some models are less reliable
than average and others more reliable. The differences between top tier
manufacturers is very small. I also get irritated at some of CR comments
about interior materials. They often talk about cheap looking plastic in
domestic cars while ignoring the crappy looking plastic Toyota routinely
uses. My sister has a new RAV4. Mostly I like it, but there is no way the
interior materials are anything special. And then there is the whole
question of out gassing from plastic. In the past Toyota was among the
worst offenders in than respect.

Oh well...enough from me for now.

Ed

Why is it some of you Toyonuts are always cross-posting or Trolling the GM
<newsgroups?

Listen loser, you need to chill out and realize that 5 years from now Ford
and Chevy will cease to exist. Our politicians sold us out for NAFTA and
guaranteed that only Japmobiles and other foreign junk misers would take
over the auto market. It's a harsh new world out there, so man up, grow
some balls and face it.

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:p--dneFZXKlirhbVnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
You're right, Ed. I guess I accidentally put the OP in the same bin as some
of the other Toyota nuts ("Hachiroku" for example). However, my point about
Toyota lovers posting hate posts in the GM group is valid.

Car manufactures are a touchy spot for me, because I live only a few
minuites from GM's Oshawa, Ontario plants. The region I live in is
sustained by GM, which means if GM goes down, so does this region, and most
of my family (who work for the General).

On Jul 27, 2:55*am, "80_Knight" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
GM is doomed so it is sure to go down on you

Gosi turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

Bold statement there.

--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org

"Ashton Crusher" <demi@moore.net> wrote in message
news:k13o84lsi8s0k42dck1qo9scpqka96nk9m@4ax.com...

It is even worse than that. Suppose you had two minor problems, say shift
indicator adjustment and low fluid level for one brand versus the
transmission completely failing for another. Or suppose 9 Toyotas had zero
problems but the one you bought had 15? Ironically the data collected by
both JD Powers and CR is probably a lot more useful to the manufacturers
than to individuals.

Ed

"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:819e442b-ba19-4ebc-8654-b19d61705cf2@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 27, 2:55 am, "80_Knight" <nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
GM is doomed so it is sure to go down on you

================================================== =======

You know, you are true Internet scum. Not only do you Troll newsgroups, but
you also wish harm on people who have done nothing to you. You are a true
low life, Gosi. By the way, with you having such a hard-on over GM's
faults, I must ask, what country do you live in?