What's wrong with Subaru wagons?
Love my 84 Tercel 4wd wagon!
You wouldn't believe the snow I went through this winter! Had 4 new snow tires
on it also~~!

A national CAA survey (equivalent to the AAA) among 20000 respondants
performed in 2003 revealed the average cost of maintenance for passenger
vehicules is :

age of car
1 $200
2 $350
3 $500
4 $800
5 to12: $1100 per year

Survey respondants claimed driving an average of 19k km per year, or app
12k milles. (I am sure most respondants dont keep a detailed history of
repair costs. So let's add a couple of hundred dollars to the age 5 -12
figure.)

In the last 12 months, I spent $1400 on my 1998 Max. I drove 22k km. It now
has 103k km on the odometer.

In my estimation, the economical break point for owning a vehicule is when
it reaches 7-8 years old. At that point, the average yearly total cost of
depreciation, repairs and capital cost is at minimum. Beyond 8 years, the
average yearly cost does not get any significantly lower. As a matter of
fact, you increase the risk of being stranded, car downtime, time lost while
at shops, and loss of income if you depend on the car for such. The most
economical strategy is to buy a used car between 2 and 5 years old and keep
untill it reaches 7 or 8 years of age. A made myself a rule of thumb to
seriously consider getting rid of the car if the last 12 months actual costs
or next 12 months forecast exceeds $1500. But often emotions get in the way.
Or life has other plans.

Dan, Montreal

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:23:42 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
<josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:

Maybe a bit longer if you have coils over the plugs... 8)

Caroline wrote:
engine and auto tranny never needed a rebuild. It was still running great
when he ditched it a few years ago (due to excessive rust).

On 26 Feb 2004 22:46:40 GMT, fx199@aol.com (Fx199) wrote:

I won't forget visiting a client of mine who was trying to change all
the hoses on a friends Subaru wagon. He said he had a hell of a time
getting the hoses from the Subaru dealer. This made me thing.

Never have had a problem getting a part for my Toy.

Even a rear marker light was available in a couple of days. That on a
12 year old car.

I'm sticking with my '92 Corolla wagon...works great for me...


Scott in Florida

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:25:48 GMT, "Daniel" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

....this obviously is NOT Toyota... <g>

I'm at 12 years and spent 200 USD for repairs last year...


Scott in Florida

"Daniel" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote

Every year, cars are made safer- more of them have more air bags, ABS
systems, traction control, a higher percentage are AWD, they are
tweaked based on better computer and physical simulations of crashes.
Car crashes are by far the largest cause of accidental death. Your
life is worth an almost infinite amount of money to you. The time to
get rid of a car is when it is old enough that you no longer feel safe
because newer cars are so much improved. It is likely that you will
no longer feel as safe as you could be with a newer car, long, long
before the expense of maintaining the old one becomes annoying.

On 27 Feb 2004 03:49:39 -0800, rocker1@shegolfs.com (Dave Arbok)
wrote:

How about taking a driving course and improving your ability to avoid
a crash?

Why do people make themselves feel safer by some stupid computer when
they have the most powerful computer on the planet between their ears?

Cars don't avoid crashes...PEOPLE do...


Scott in Florida

Scott in Florida wrote:

At a certain point, though, the suspension and components on the
vehicle are worn to where the vehicle kind of moves in the general
direction. The crispness and instant response is gone.

Eventually it gets to be like a big old Caddy - you point and
it lurches.

IME, 12-15 years is about when this usually happens.

Actually driving courses would be good, people tend to get sloppy at driving
after a while. My company used to (before budget cuts) insist that all
persons driving company vehicles take a refresher course every 5 years.
Believe me, it helps.

As for the 12-15 years suspension issue I agree somewhat, it depends on the
car and the drive. After twenty years I had my XR7 inspected, and the
mechanic said the steering was almost as good as the day the car left the
factory. The secret is regular maintenance (in this case, I lubed the ball
joints at every oil change, they had grease nipples). I can't find any
grease nipples on the ball joints of my Eclipse, which means I'm probably in
trouble, in about 12-15 years (when they say "lubed for life" who's life are
they talking about). This is an improvement??. By the way, the suspension
on the XR7 did go before twenty years, but springs and bushings for a Ford
are cheap. Again I say, it's all in the maintenance, take care of your car,
and it'll take care of you.
Of course if you have a wife who is tired of an 18 foot long 2880 Kg, 6.6
liter, fuel guzzler, no maintenance in the world is going to save the car.

Nirodac


"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8pH%b.11507$aT1.5126@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:14:44 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
<josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:

You would be welcome to come drive my '92 Corolla wagon.

It is a crisp as the day it was new.

The mechanics at my favorite Toy Dealer in Venice FL marvel at it and
are just waiting for me to fall in love with one of those new
Toys...LOL.

Now I have kept up with all maintenance and fixed things that went
wrong right away.

If you take care of a Toy, it will take care of you!!!


Scott in Florida

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:23:40 GMT, "Nirodac" <nirodac@hotmail.com>
wrote:


If Moma ain't happy....nobody is happy!!!

Scott in Florida

Amen


"Scott in Florida" <NotInThisLifetime@nope.ucan't> wrote in message
news:uuuu30to1g891onqa48i1t7mmottpfnp78@4ax.com...

In article <9Sd%b.413137$na.800850@attbi_s04>,
Crunchy Cookie <LSC400@Yahoo.com> wrote:
It is highly dependent on the maintenance the car has received.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:14:44 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
<josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:

You have to look at the overall condition of the body, the interior,
and the drivetrain, and ask yourself some tough questions - If I put
$1000 into rebuilding the front suspension, or the steering box/rack
and pinion, or the rear axle, or the half-shafts, or whatever, will I
get the money back by driving the car for a few more years?

It Never makes sense to do major repairs and renovations to a car or
truck if you are going to turn around and sell it, other than the
minimum needed to get the car road-worthy if the wheel fell off - if
it's not driveable you get no money at all for it.

But if the car meets your needs, isn't structurally rusting out or
otherwise approaching "the point of no return", and repair parts are
still available, it's often a LOT cheaper to keep your old car, get
things repaired properly as they break, and keep driving it.

You take a big hit from depreciation and financing when you buy a
new car - put the money you'd use for new car payments in the bank as
savings, and you'll have a big cash pool to pay for the repairs as
they come up - and usually a lot of money left over.

--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

True, but the value of a 12-15 year old car is usually no more than
$1500-$2000 at best. $1000 is often closer to reality in the current
tough marketplace we now have. So - when the cost of keeping it
running properly exceeds the value - time to get a better car.

"Scott in Florida" <NotInThisLifetime@nope.ucan't> wrote in message
news:uuuu30to1g891onqa48i1t7mmottpfnp78@4ax.com...


"Happy Wife, Happy Life"

"AMG" <martinez@nojunkrica.net> wrote in message
news:103s51o7okr2e74@corp.supernews.com...
Well, you can't just compare it to a new car since that's the highest standard;
you could compare it to other used cars of varying ages, which was my
inspiration for the question. Like I said, I think I asked the wrong
question -- it should've been "at what age is a used car not worth buying?" and
even then, it would be too vague, since it calls for clarification. So I should
have said "at what age is a used car not worth buying if you plan to keep it for
about 4 or 5 years?" Before everyone answered, I thought most cars were ticking
time bombs in the 100K range, but every poster seems to have a 200-400K story to
tell without as much as one rebuild.

"Fx199" <fx199@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040226174640.19340.00000381@mb-m16.aol.com...

I kinda like 'em. They're a little expensive, though. My Mom almost bought
one in PHX, AZ last year. The dealer would only sell at the sticker price
though, so she got a Ford Focus Wagon. She's happy with it, with the
possible exception of the way it gets blown around a bit in high winds.

I'm still on the lookout for a 96 Camry wagon in good shape. 'Til then I'll
have to make do with the 1990 G-izm.

--
Lester
1990 Geo Prism (yota gizm?) - with the Delco AM/FM baby.
Used to run a 1986 Chevy Nova (Chevyota NoRolla) - It had a GM Radiator.

Joseph Oberlander <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> writes:
I actually don't use the "book value" as a factor at all. Why does it
matter what I can sell it for if I don't intend to sell?

For me, when the cost of anticipated repairs starts to approach
a few years of payments on a new car, it's time to buy a new one.

Right now I have a worthless '85 Corolla. The value is zero, but it's
still worth keeping. However, I have about $4500 of "deferred
maintenance" queued up that will never get done. The next time it
needs a repair, it's gone.