Hi Guys,

I have to post this - it's too ludicrous to ignore. The Vatican, I heard
today, are apparently telling their flock that HIV can pass through
condoms and therefore condom use is useless. Don't bother. Have lots of
kids and spread the virus.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3176982.stm

Even more ludicrous is their claim that condom use is PROMOTING the spread
of HIV by encouraging promiscuous sex in the "mistaken" belief that the
condom will protect.

Well, I looked this up - I had to be sure.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...uality_en.html

Paragraph 139
139. Another abuse occurs whenever sex education is given to children by
teaching them all the intimate details of genital relationships, even in a
graphic way. Today this is often motivated by wanting to provide education
for "safe sex", above all in relation to the spread of AIDS. In this
situation, parents must also reject the promotion of so-called "safe sex"
or "safer sex", a dangerous and immoral policy based on the deluded theory
that the condom can provide adequate protection against AIDS. Parents must
insist on continence outside marriage and fidelity in marriage as the only
true and secure education for the prevention of this contagious disease.

Okay, monogamy and sensible sexual practises fine. Encourage chastity
fine. Telling downright lies to promote a belief structure at the expense
of the health of millions is unacceptable. I'm bloody furious.

The WHO has already slapped their wrists, but I wonder whether the Vatican
will listen. We've known for years that Catholics have avoided condom use
due to their religion - fair enough - but for God's sake can they at least
be given some sensible fucking facts before they make their minds up?! I
thought we gave up allowing religion to meddle in politics with Henry the
Eighth!

Give me bloody Taoism any day.

Bennett

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:16:39 +0100, Nick Bennett <njb35@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

snip...
Remember what they did to Galileo? The Church doesn't have much truck
with science when it conflicts with their control-hungry bigotries.

I hope to visit the Vatican again and put MORE condoms in the
offertory box, just like last time. Then at least the priest fucking
the altar boy might think about slipping it on first.

George M. Carter

Nick Bennett wrote:

Aids is not caused by hiv.
It is caused by the abuse of medication like Cortison,Bactrim or Cotrimoxazole,
by poisonous AZT,
and by the antiretrovirals.

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/tour/

The WHO is lying even more than the church.


Real science will do for me.

Hayek.

--
"Tenonder gaan aan de domste van de groep is nu eenmaal niets om fier op te zijn."
-- "Omarr" aka Lieven Stockman

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:11:54 +0200, Hayek <hayektt@nospam.xs4all.nl>
wrote:

snip...
As if there is a SHRED of evidence to support this. People who take
NONE of these drugs develop AIDS. It's because HIV exists and causes
AIDS in the majority of infected individuals. It would be marvelous if
such a facile explanation adequately described the development of AIDS
as this notion of "drugs cause AIDS." But there are no data to support
that.

Indeed, you'd think it would penetrate the fog of your thinking that
people taking MORE toxic drugs tend to have dramatic recoveries and do
not die. Those that take none wind up in the grave, as happens
persistently and continuously in places like Africa, denied access by
PHRMA and corrupt governments (e.g., the U.S.).

snip...
Nonsense. You wouldn't know real science if it bit you on the ass.

George M. Carter

"Nick Bennett" <njb35@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0310091109040.17920-100000@green.csi.cam.ac.uk...
_human-sexuality_en.html

I have no problem with the Vatican condemning the use of condoms on
moral grounds, but they have gone too far in issuing a medical/scientific
opinion on their effectiveness. What right do a bunch of self-righteous
bishops who have spent their entire lives studying the bible and not
having sex have to determine the effectiveness of condoms in preventing
the transmission of contagious diseases? If they were scientists with
important degrees then their opinion would matter. Scientists have
conducted extensive tests of latex condoms over the last 20 years and
they have all concluded the latex blocks the HIV virus from passing
through. Testing is still being conducted on the new polyurethane
condoms, but it is believed they will prove to be effective as well.

In the message
news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0310091109040.17920-100000@green.csi.cam.ac.uk...
"Nick Bennett" <njb35@cam.ac.uk> wrote: >

in case anbody needs it.

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels)
IP/03/1410

Brussels, 20 October 2003

http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=IP/03/1410|0|RAPID&lg=EN;

HIV/AIDS: European Research provides clear proof that HIV virus cannot pass
through condoms

Questions have arisen recently over whether the HIV virus can or cannot pass
through pores in latex condoms. EU research projects provide extensive proof
that this is not the case: if properly used, condoms are safe. Over the last
15 years, the Commission has supported about a dozen research initiatives in
this field across Europe, as well as in Asia and Africa, the areas most
affected by the AIDS pandemic. EU projects focused on condoms' potential
porosity and quality standards, and included surveys of infection
transmission in couples and prostitutes. Scientific evidence shows that
condoms are the only effective protection against HIV/AIDS. HIV/AIDS kills
over 3 million people every year, and the fight against this virus relies
mostly on protective measures, including condoms.

European Research Commissioner Philippe Busquin said: "I rely on statements
that are based on sound scientific evidence and we can demonstrate that
condoms are the best way to prevent HIV infection. Statements not supported
by sound scientific evidence are not plausible."

"Condoms are part of the solution," added Commissioner for Development and
Humanitarian Aid Poul Nielson. "The condemnation of condoms is part of the
problem."

A global killer

HIV/AIDS is the worst pandemic the world has ever faced. Every year, five
million people are infected with the virus, and over 3 million die, most of
them without receiving any treatment. The most affected populations are the
poorest, most vulnerable ones. The lack of effective treatment against the
virus is forcing all efforts to be concentrated on prevention strategies,
including the use of condoms.

100% effectiveness

With over 40 million HIV infected people in the world, prevention measures
have to be based on scientific evidence. During the last 15 years, the
European Commission has financed several research projects aimed at
studying, (directly or indirectly), the use of condoms as a preventive
measure against sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS. These
projects were carried out not only in Europe, but also in Asia and
sub-Saharan Africa, where the burden of the HIV epidemic is at its highest.
All the studies concluded that the male condom was an effective way of
preventing the transmission of HIV, with an efficacy close to 100% when the
condom is used appropriately.

Water-tight safety

The security and effectiveness of barrier devices against HIV transmission
has also been evaluated in a project aimed at evaluating and comparing
methods to find holes in condoms. This EC-funded project, "Assessment of
methods for finding holes in condoms", analysed water, ion and air
permeability for setting quality control standard of condoms. The
conclusions of this study were used to standardise the evaluation methods
for producing safer and more secure condoms.

Sharply reducing risks

A European multi-centre study, funded by the European Commission through
several research projects including "AIDS: heterosexual transmission" and
"EC concerted action on the heterosexual transmission of HIV", followed 563
couples with one seropositive partner over 12-21 months. Out of 123 couples
using condoms for each instance of vaginal or anal intercourse, no
seroconversions occurred; 12 seroconversions occurred among 122 partners who
did not use condoms regularly. The consortium concluded that no HIV
transmission occurs among systematic condom users.

Use condoms

Another EU-funded project on 866 female prostitutes from European countries,
"HIV infection in female prostitutes", concluded that the lack of condom use
was associated with HIV infections. The study also stated that
petroleum-based lubricants could diminish the efficacy of condoms.

A recent meeting of international HIV experts funded by the EU, held in
Antwerp, from 12-15 May 2002, concluded that the male condom is the only
effective protection against HIV transmission.

Further information

http://www.usaid.gov/pop_health/aids...factsheet.html

(from NIH)

http://www.thebody.com/unaids/wac/condoms.html

(from UNAIDS)

---

"Alan \(in Brussels\)" <alanfree@pi.be> wrote:

"Alan \(in Brussels\)" <alanfree@pi.be> wrote: