Hi. I'll pay anyone handsomely if they give me AIDS. I'm in the
Toronto area.

Alykhan Lada wrote:
WHAT is wrong with you???? There are people living with this horrible
virus all over the world. Many of them are dying. What you do need is
a referral to a PSYCHIATRIST. The sooner, the better off we will all
be.

"Alykhan Lada" <alykhanlada@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1162845446.084958.199300@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
What is a "bug chaser?"

A bug chaser is a gay man who deliberately attempts to contract HIV by having unprotected sex
with a man or group of men who are known to have the virus.

What is a "gift giver?"

A gift giver is an HIV positive gay man who deliberately transmits the virus, often times to
bug chasers, or those willing to contract it.

What are bug parties?

Bug parties are sex parties often ranging from a few to as much as 30 people. Unsafe sex with
every participant at the party is encouraged. There are several variations of bug parties. At
some, there is one member of the "orgy" that is HIV positive. Only this individual and the host
know his positive status.

The remaining participants know that there is an infected person in the room, but do not know
his identity. The participants then partake in a night usually filled with alcohol, drugs and
of course unsafe sex.

In other variations of a bug party, there is one person who is not infected with HIV, however
the other participants are or may be. Every one is aware of the person who disease free. The
HIV negative person then allows the infected guys to have unprotected anal sex with him.

Why do people participate in bug parties?

Many psychologists theorize that participation in bug parties is actually an anxiety disorder
where the non-infected individuals fear getting HIV so greatly that they would rather contract
it and free themselves of the anxiety of living in fear. These parties are also seen as a sort
of club for those living with HIV. Infecting a HIV negative and willing participant initiates
them into their world. Some people also engage in unprotected anal sex (or barebacking) as the
fear for AIDS dangerously dwindles.

"The Gift" from filmmaker Louise Hogarth is a documentary about gay men who purposely contract
HIV. According to Rolling Stone, one character in the film admits "I was relieved. I didn't
have to worry. Do I need to be careful -- not any more." Yet another willing 21-year-old
regrets his choice. "I've made a terrible mistake and there's no fixing that. There is no
benefit in this and that's what needs to be said."

If you want "AIDS," the clinical syndrome, that is easy to create, but
nobody can you give something called a "virus" that is actually the
effect of certain stressors. To destroy your immune system, you need
to expose yourself to a great deal of antigens and oxidative stress
(other stressors too, such as UV radiation). Eat large amounts of the
so called "essential fatty acids," along with cooked meat. Steamed
salmon seems especially bad. Stay away from food with significant
antioxidant capacity.

Semen is rich in immunosuppressive PGE2, so passive anal intercourse
will speed the process along.

On 9 Nov 2006 11:28:50 -0800, monty1945@lycos.com wrote:

Really? By all means, do share. The clinical syndrome of diseases that
AIDS presents is associated with a very low CD4 count.

What causes that, in your view? And what is the evidence that supports
such a cause?

George M. Carter

Where is the evidence that low CD4 counts are in all "HIV/AIDS"
patients but in nobody else? When one examines this claim, one learns
how pathetic it is, as the Perth Group and others have pointed out.
Cite your evidence, Mr. Carter, but I have no interest in assumptions.
Science is supposed to be generated by the scientific method, and not
by a priestly elite. Are you aware, sir, of the recent claim by
"HIV/AIDS experts" that these cells are not destroyed but are "turned
off?" Until those in charge are willing to present a formal hypothesis
for "HIV/AIDS," and allow it to be sujected to intense scrutiny, there
will only be failure after failure, because this "disease" is about
stressors, not "pathogens." Telling people to avoid "infection" thus
does not protect them from the stressors. Once the stressors do the
damage, then the "opportunistic infections" can occur, the last element
in the pathway, not the first.

<monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message


They die, and are not replaced.

On 11 Nov 2006 12:42:00 -0800, monty1945@lycos.com wrote:

By all means--show us people without HIV that have low CD4 counts.

What's the explanation for CD4 counts dropping to zero?

GMCarter a écrit :

peroxynitrites! But it is too hard for you, George

On 12 Nov 2006 04:37:56 -0800, "John_fr" <j.umber@ac-nancy-metz.fr>
wrote:

An hypothesis. So the questions are: does everyone with AIDS and a
persistently declining CD4 count use these chemicals?

And what evidence is there to suggest that these peroxynitrites cause
a depletion of CD4 counts?

Since it's so hard for me, I'm sure you'll enlighten everyone with
your profound knowledge and insights!

George M. Carter

GMCarter a écrit :

Google : "aids" peroxynitrite give 50900 hits, for example :

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../full/25/4/597

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/cgi/r...89/4/H1373.pdf

.....

According to the classic rules of oxydoreduction, azides quickly reacts
with peroxynitrites, and thus the AZT prevents well the apoptose of
lymphocytes T. Its use provoked well the temporary ascent of the CD4 +.
(See the Frost diagramm of nitrogen :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rost_azote.png )

Observe the unusual position of the azide in this diagram: it is very
oxidizing at the same moment, and easily oxidized.

This reaction releases very certainly nitrogen monoxide, which needs
thiols ( glutathion ) to be non toxic. Unfortunately, the AZT also
decreases the rate of thiols, and so appears the "resistance" to the
AZT.

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
I see you're back with a new variation on the old theme.

Lets see now - to get AIDS we don't need to be infected with HIV but
can develop profound and long-lasting CD4 depletion by doing one of the
following:

1. Lie around in the sun (Gee I guess that's why so many Africans have
it, huh?)
2. Don't drink alcohol (it has anti-oxidants). Um..no wait,...I
thought the denialist theory was that if you did drugs and alcohol you
got AIDS? Oh well, never mind, next week they'll probably change their
minds again.
3. Eat meat. This is why you never see vegetarians with AIDS, and why
everyone on the Atkins diet has AIDS. This also explains why starving
Africans with protein calorie malnutrition and hypoprotenaemia never
get AIDS. Um.... there again, maybe not. Better check this again next
week as well - the schizoid denialist theory will have switched back
then no doubt.
4. Eat Salmon. Have you noticed the high number of twee old ladies in
the Scottish highlands who have been dying from AIDS recently? Well now
you know why.

Caveat: Vaginal intercourse is however exempt from this. So if you are
a female, you know what to do...

On 12 Nov 2006 23:06:18 -0800, "John_fr" <j.umber@ac-nancy-metz.fr>
wrote:

snip
That's not an answer to the specific questions I asked and it's a
rather poor set of search parameters.

A truly fascinating article--thank you. It does NOT answer the
question. Nor does it suggest that nitrites cause AIDS or CD4
depletion. Oxidative stress related to nitrites use may certainly
inflame the situation, advancing both HIV and HHV-8 diseases
concomitantly. No surprise there at all.

But that does not mean peroxynitrites are the cause of AIDS.


Also a fascinating article--thanks again. But this does not support
the notion that peroxynitrites cause AIDS or result in a persistent
chronic decline of CD4 counts. They note that oxidative stress is
important--I agree with this. They note: "Direct HIV infection
of vascular cells (most notably vascular endothelium)
remains controversial (9, 11, 24), and toxicities of HIV-associated
proteins (gp120 and Tat protein), increased cytokine
exposures, and, more recently, toxicities of HIV drug regimens
have been suspected as participants (11, 28, 31, 43)."

AZT is not a peroxynitrite. It does have an azide group. Most people
in the world today still develop AIDS long before AZT administration.

AZT does not cause CD4 counts to decline to zero. To the contrary; as
part of a regimen managing HIV disease, CD4 counts increase!

I've known LOTS of people to use glutathione regenerating
interventions (NAC, alpha lipoic acid, silymarin, whey) with or
without AZT. AZT "resistance" arises from HIV simply mutating its
reverse transcriptase.

Please keep trying--at least what you post is fascinating and
interesting, if utterly irrelevant to the claim that peroxynitrites
cause AIDS.

George M. Carter

GMCarter a écrit :

George, You have not understood me. AZT reacts with peroxynitrite to
give dinitrogen or nitrogen monoxide. So, I agree with you, AZT has all
that it is necessary to make increase temporarily the CD4 +.

No, the most known publication which seems to demonstrate this, that of
Huang and al ., is filled with contradictions.

http://crystal.harvard.edu/lib-sch/H...i-282-1669.pdf

You do not understand that thiols in question are endogenous.
Herzenberg and al showed that the sick persons of the AIDS and having
used AZT have a weak rate of endogenous thiols

But it is nevertheless what Montagnier and the Pasteur Institute
proclaim today. They say that the passage by the oxydatif stress and
the peroxynitrites is compulsory (that they are owed to HIV or not)

On 13 Nov 2006 04:36:26 -0800, "John_fr" <j.umber@ac-nancy-metz.fr>
wrote:


AZT does not cause nor has it been shown to cause AIDS.

You claimed peroxynitrites are the cause of the persistent decline of
CD4 cells. You have provided no evidence for this.
snip
LOL. Of course I do. What in the world are you saying? Write it in
French if you prefer. But the article above has got nothing to do with
the claim you made at the top.

Honey, people with HIV have a lower level of intracellular reduced
glutathione. That's a result of HIV.


I don't think so. I mean, I know Rene Olivier pretty well and that's
not what they say. HIV is necessary. The oxidative stress that arises
is a part of a negative feedback loop that arises. Offsetting the
oxidative stress alone, however, doesn't really treat HIV disease as
well as ARV--but antioxidant therapies can help to slow disease and
probably help offset some ARV toxicities.

George M. Carter

"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message

Hey Carter, you forgot to mention David Pasquiarelli.

Go on, call up your genie, LOL.

GMCarter a écrit :

George, is it a leitmotiv for you?? Of what are you afraid?

Montagnier said (in french):

Enfin un des problèmes majeurs non totalement résolu de la
pathogénèse du Sida, reste l'explication de la mort massive des
lymphocytes T4. Contrairement à ce que l'on croyait il y a quelques
années, cette disparition, qui existe dès la période asymptomatique,
n'est pas due à l'infection directe des cellules par la souche virale,
qui est alors peu cytopathogène, mais à des mécanismes indirects
touchant les cellules CD4+ non infectées; celles-ci ont une propension
à mourir d'apoptose, comme d'ailleurs les cellules CD8+. En fait,
toutes les sous-populations immunitaires sont touchées par ce
phénomène, bien que ce soient les CD4+ qui disparaissent en nombre.
Un des médiateurs de cette apoptose est l'existence d'un fort stress
oxydant caractérisé par une prévalence de molécules oxydantes
(radicaux libres) sur les défenses antioxydantes de l'organisme: ainsi
le taux de glutathion oxydé est-il très élevé, de même que celui
des LDL (Low density lipoproteins) oxydées.

and

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

and...

34200 hits for apoptosis peroxynitrite aids.

L'article sus-mentionné essaye de montrer comment fonctionne la
résistance à l'AZT. Or, leurs interprétations n'obéissent pas aux
règles de la chimie, en particulier parce qu'ils ne tiennent
absolument pas compte des liaisons hydrogène. Donc, en fait
l'existence d'une "résistance au virus" n'est qu'une interprétation
non fondée.

But all of active ARV are antioxidant as well 3TC, lopinavir, and
partially AZT

Jean

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:43:10 -0600, " Death" <Death@yourdoor.net>
wrote:

You ARE Frodlet, aren't you? Having contributed so meaningfully to his
death by forcing him to buy denialist nonsense and DNCB, you remain
guilt-ridden, I guess.

On 13 Nov 2006 21:33:18 -0800, "John_fr" <j.umber@ac-nancy-metz.fr>
wrote:

No. It's just a fact. AZT does NOT cause CD4 counts to decline, as you
already admit. Is it a healthy substance? Far from it. It is
ineffective as a monotherapy.

But one of the best first line regimens--and with all limitations--is
AZT/3TC/efavirenz.

Please ALWAYS put a citation. I'll presume he did say the following,
probably in 1990.

This is less true than when he said it--but it remains an important
question.

Yes!! And the proximate cause of that apoptosis among uninfected cells
is HIV infection.

That's been my question--if not HIV, what?

Absolutely. Still an important mechanism with clear therapeutic
implications. To wit, interventions like NAC, whey, alpha lipoic acid.

A lot of liver damage in Hep C infection is not due to direct
cytopathicity but excessive immune response and concomitant oxidative
stress. Which is why I use most of those interventions to restore
intracellular glutathione levels and slow disease progression.

Antioxidant therapy I believe should be a PART of HIV disease care. It
is not the "cure."

Lovely....but it does not support your claim.

Mossalayi MD, Becherel PA, Debre P. Critical role of nitric oxide
during the apoptosis of peripheral blood leukocytes from patients with
AIDS. Mol Med. 1999 Dec;5(12):812-9.

Molecular Immunohematology Group, Pitie-Salpetriere Hospital, Paris,
France. djavad.mossalayi@umr5540.u-bordeaux2.fr

BACKGROUND: Highly active antiretroviral therapies (HAART) increase
the CD4(+) cell count, but complete normalization of this parameter
has not been obtained in some patients. [NOTE: BUT IN MANY PATIENTS,
ARV DOES RESULT IN NORMALIZATION OF CD4 COUNTS.] As oxidative stress
plays an important role during human immunodeficiency virus type 1
(HIV-1)-associated dementia and lymphocyte apoptosis, we asked whether
the nitric oxide (NO) pathway plays a role in the in vitro survival of
peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) from HIV-1(+) patients and
how it correlates with peripheral CD4(+) cell levels. MATERIALS AND
METHODS: PBMC were isolated from patients with AIDS and assayed for
apoptosis and proliferation in the presence of various chemicals,
including agonists or antagonists of the NO pathway. Data were then
compared with several in vivo parameters from the same patients.
RESULTS: Apoptosis of PBMC in the presence of exogenous NO is
significantly higher in patients with low peripheral CD4(+) cell
levels than in patients with high CD4(+) cell numbers or seronegative
individuals. In addition, endogenous NO inhibition rescues cells from
apoptosis in AIDS patients with low circulating CD4(+) cell numbers
and helps recovery of the T cell proliferative response. NO-mediated
apoptosis does not require cGMP but involves peroxynitrite generation,
PARP activation, and NAD(+) depletion. CONCLUSIONS: Taken together,
the data suggest the involvement of NO during the apoptosis and
functional impairment of lymphocytes in patients with AIDS.

So what?

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/medical/peroxynitrite.htm
Peroxynitrite : formed by the diffusion limited reaction of superoxide
with nitric oxide; may be a major mechanism of oxidative damage in the
heart.

If anything, this would be mopped up by SOD forms. MnSOD is disrupted
by tat. What's tat? A regulatory protein that is part of the HIV
replication cycle.

Endogenous peroxynitrite production arising from HIV infection is a
sequelae. It DOES have possible therapeutic implications, and that is
important.

But it does not mean they are the "cause" of AIDS.

Bullshit. That's your wholly unsupported claim.

I think they're only antioxidant to the extent that they remove the
cause of the oxidative stress, HIV. They INDUCE oxidative stress (at
least the nukes in some tissue-specific ways) through mitochondrial
disruption and destruction.

You have failed to demonstrate that "peroxynitrites" cause CD4
depletion or why this disrupted redox balance occurs with such
devastating consequences.

George M. Carter

GMCarter a écrit :

George, Your knowledge of the chemistry is really of the level of the
elementary school.