Abstract:
Here's a table for you -- the mortality rate among HIV positive kids in
NY, not diagnosed as "AIDS patients" (read - no drugs) is FOUR Percent.

That is, 96 percent of kids in NY who test HIV pos, but who aren't
routinely drugged (by inference as not being labeled "AIDS") are alive and
well.

The AIDS group suffers a 60 percent mortality - high, but not 100%, which
is what we're told. What would it be minus the AIDS drugs?

NYC HIV/AIDS Statistics Through 2003:
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doh/pdf...d-20031204.pdf
Note that NYC backdates AIDS deaths to 1976, eight years before the HIV
test was produced.
Note that the percentage of deaths among AIDS patients (those taking the
drugs) is Sixty percent. High, but not 100%.

Note that the percentage of death among HIV positive children (who are not
considered AIDS patients) - is Four Percent.
That is -- 96% of all HIV pos. kids in NYC considered HIV pos from 1976(!)
onward -- lived. (HIV positive kids are kids who tested pos, but who were
not considered AIDS patients, for any number of reasons - background,
their particular doctor, etc. As a result of not being considered AIDS
patients,they would have been spared the AIDS drugs.)

Note that NYC listed 5 pediatric AIDS deaths (under 13 years old) in
2002.There were at least three alone, possibly four, at ICC.
-- OF important note - when I contacted the NYC coroner's office, I was
told that the office doesn't list "AIDS" or "HIV" as a cause of Death in
children - instead they call it "natural causes."
- NY coroner 212 447 2030

Note - minorities constitute the largest number of cases (cumulatively
since beginning of HIV, whenever they say that was) --

Black HIV - 888 - 59%
Hispanic HIV -488 - 32%
White HIV - 81 - 5%
Black AIDS - 1,243 - 57%
Hispanic AIDS - 764 - 35%
White AIDS - 152- 7%
Survivial Status (in 20 plus years) for HIV pos: Dead - 53 (4%) Alive -
1,446 (96%)

Survival Status for AIDS (HIV plus AIDS drugs) Dead: 1,294 (60%) Alive -
878 (40%)

"PaulKing" <aimulti@aimultimedia.com> wrote in message
news:97347ddb50c0df0f1ed9313f83ebf0bc@localhost.ta lkabouthealthnetwork.com...
Look at the death rates in the US pre HAART or at the third world nations of
the world and you can easily see what the death rates are for AIDS patients
who have never taken a single anti-virus medication. It is substantially
higher then 60% closer to 90%.

As to your mangled use of the NY data above you are not comparing apples to
apples. Some one who is HIV positive and asymptomatic is not at risk of
death and a group of such people would have a rate of death similar to what
is normal for there age group and society. On the other hand some one who is
HIV positive and symptomatic is at much higher risk for death due to the
progression of there disease. Your example is like comparing the death rate
of a group composed of people newly diagnosed with the early stages of
cancer and not undergoing treatment to a group in late stage cancer
undergoing chemo and radiation therapy and concluding that it must be the
therapy that is causing all of them to die. Your miss use of data is so
blatantly misleading I am surprised you can look at your self in the mirror
with out puking in disgust.

Gary Stein

The data clearly show that 'AIDS meds' not 'HIV infection' is the real
killer.

It is hard to cloud such clear data (but you did try).

I understand why you find such graphic proof that you are wrong a tad
upsetting.

I would too.