AIDS apologists are those who know HIV leads to AIDS (proven by
science, so much scientific proof) and we realize medications are
eventual for those living with HIV infections. AIDS dissidents
(dissidence is anti, against, argumentative) deny HIV causes AIDS and
claim the medications kill the patients (AZT "over use" alone started
this myth in the late 80s, but medicine combo/therapies are working
today in the year 2000+).

What are AIDS dissidents? Find out who, what, where, when and why:
http://www.hivforum.com/?dissident=d...site:aegis.com

What are AIDS denialists all about? See the myths exposed:
http://www.hivforum.com/?dissident=d...te:thebody.com

Learn about how they are murdering HIV positive people:
http://www.medchecker.com/dissident/aids-dissidents.htm

Thanks.
http://www.HIVforum.com

Is it that hard to believe that you may be wrong? There is just as much
evidence to the contrary, you just don't have the guts to accept the
responsability of your own care, and you probably grew up in the age of
doctors are gods? Do I have to list the number of mistakes made in just the
last decade? My lover died from the side effects of chemo and rodiotherapy,
know they say KS is a virus, should he have died? Waiting to be sure
instead of putting your faith in an untested drug, approved in a fortnight,
to me is stupid, and I hope you are willing to appologies to the people who
DO get sick from the drugs if it is found you are wrong.
"http://www.HIVsearch.com" <dave@poz.ca> wrote in message
news:b8d83a5.0404022312.ffde7d3@posting.google.com ...

Show me a picture of the HIV virus, not just a graphical representation of
what they think it might look like.
"http://www.HIVsearch.com" <dave@poz.ca> wrote in message
news:b8d83a5.0404022312.ffde7d3@posting.google.com ...

David Bamford wrote:

been photographed, a claim that has been disproved many times in this
forum alone, indicates that you are either wilfully ignorant,
disingenous, or a bald faced liar. The fact that you flat out lie in
another post in this thread by stating that no research has been done on
long term non-progressers makes is quite clear what you are.

PLONK!!

--
Larry D. Farrell, Ph.D.
Professor of Microbiology
Idaho State University

No, I am just someone with enough brains to realize people like yourself
have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth (true or not), someone that
has survived 20 years next month without drugs, and someone that does not
need to take something that will probably kill me, just for the hope of a
few more years. This is obviously not an open forum, because anyone that
does not agree with your version of things is cut to shreds for daring to
question something that no-one can really prove. If you are full of
answers, why am I and many, many others like me alive? You can tell us all
why we will die, tell me why I didn't?
"Larry Farrell" <farrlarr@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:05a644a66ce6aa241cefa731ef86c056@news.teranew s.com...

Oh, and I have nothing to apologise for, but you may in the future I am not
supposed to have.
"Larry Farrell" <farrlarr@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:05a644a66ce6aa241cefa731ef86c056@news.teranew s.com...

Show me the pic then!
"Larry Farrell" <farrlarr@isu.edu> wrote in message
news:05a644a66ce6aa241cefa731ef86c056@news.teranew s.com...

Here are a few questions:

1) Why have all the countries hardest hit by AIDS doubled their
population during the AIDS years (1980-2004)? And no, "well
without AIDS, their populations would have tripled" is not an
answer - they already have the highest population growth in
the world. In fact, much higher than countries without "AIDS
epidemics".

Zambia
1980 5,700
2004 10,462
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum?cty=za
Kenya
1980 16,698
2004 32,022
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum?cty=ke
Uganda
1980 12,298
2004 26,405
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum?cty=ug

Anyone remember Uganda being the epicenter of AIDS
back in the 80s? The depopulated villages of the Kenyan
Kagera region of AIDS mythology?


2) If HIV tests are so specific, why don't they just test
for HIV itself? Why do they test for p24 (ELISA), or
gp41 and gp120 and gp160... (Western Blot)?

Why isn't HIV isolated in a petrie dish or whatever,
every time someone goes to test for HIV?
And if p24 is so specific to HIV, why are there at
least 60 factors that create false positives in the
ELISA (p24) test?
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cjtestfp.htm

Alex


"http://www.HIVsearch.com" <dave@poz.ca> schreef in bericht
news:b8d83a5.0404022312.ffde7d3@posting.google.com ...

AZT overuse may have started the myth, but it was a fact, discovered too
late to save most of the people that took it. No apology, no we were wrong,
just take this one then, it will work (we hope) and not kill you. I have
lived for nearly 20 years without drugs, although I don't know haow I
managed to resist the presure I was put under to take AZT back then. If I
had, I would be pushing up daisies, that would have pissed me off as much as
all the people who lost friends to THAT mistake. When are people going to
realize that medicine and science are not always right? When is medicine
and science going to admit that they have made some tragic mistakes? When I
was at my doctors surgery the other day they were asking for people to trial
a NEW product, Zyban the antidepressant. Was it to treat deppression? no.
Was it to help stop smoking? No. It was to treat coldsores, how pathetic
of the drug companies. Some people commited suicide while taking it for
deppression, some killed themselves trying to treat thier smoking habit
using it, now people are going to kill themselves over a cold sore? How
does a stated anti-depressant kill the cold sore virus? You may all think
you are clever to be able to go on the latest drug for this or that, but
would you if you bothered to research the side-effects? That is, if it has
been trialed properly to see what the side-effects are. The HIV community
must be the only one silly or desperate enough to try anything, no matter
what it does to your body, in an attempt to stop the health conditions
associated with HIV before they even occur? Is that smart medicine? Aids
Dissidents are thinking people that do not believe everything they are told
because they can open thier eye's and see. Especially ofter 20 years
intimate contact with the problem, I can not tell you the number of
ridiculous things I have been told by doctors that have been proved to be
wrong. If you want to take drugs that are untested, unproven and mainly
unsafe that is your right, but allow us our right to disagree.
"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOF@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:406f0c1d$0$11065$a344fe98@news.wanadoo.nl...

One interesting link everybody should have a look at:

<http://groups.msn.com/dissident-action/actionboard.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Mes sage=729&LastModified=4675463006500044716>

Here, somebody whose name you'll probably recognize discusses his
plans for other people's online forums.

After that, take a look at:

<http://groups.msn.com/Dissident-Action/actionboard.msnw>

Here, the same person boasts about the online forums closed down as
a result of his "activism", and plans more.

--
David Canzi She couldn't get over the skimpiness of his worldly goods.
"Maybe you ought to rethink crime as a career path," she said.
"I do, all the time," he said, "but nothing else gives me the
same job satisfaction." -- Donald E. Westlake, Put A Lid On It

I don't agree with this sort of action, it assumes that the HIV population
is too stupid to make up thier own minds, give us a break, you are doing
more harm than good.
"David Canzi" <dmcanzi@remulak.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:c4o8la$2h4$1@remulak.uwaterloo.ca...
mview=0&ID_Message=729&LastModified=46754630065000 44716>

In article <c4of0i$tp1$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>,
David Bamford <dj56@ihug.com.au> wrote:
Address your objections to the people responsible... I'm just the
humble reporter.

<http://groups.msn.com/dissident-action/actionboard.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Mes sage=729&LastModified=4675463006500044716>

| From: Paul King (Original Message) Sent: 3/8/2004 7:53 PM
|
| The action resources section of our web site is in the process of
| a major update in preparation for 'The Summer of Action Against
| the Myth'.
|
| We are adding illustrated tutorials on how to use Proxy Servers in
| order to override blocked IP addresses and on a posting technique we
| call 'Firepower for Truth'.
|
| 'Firepower' allows messages to be posted to boards with full time
| censors like TheBody and Aidsmeds at a sustained rate of over 15 PPM
| (posts per minute). It allows you to overwhelm the censor, as with
| a few mouse clicks you can post faster then they can delete.
|
| Many other features are being added all designed to help you spread
| the truth and defeat all attempts at censorship with minimum effort.
|
| Millions of people are dying horrific deaths because of this immoral
| myth and we must attack it as one would a cancer or any other obscene
| tyranny against mankind.
|
| Total war against the myth!

--
David Canzi She couldn't get over the skimpiness of his worldly goods.
"Maybe you ought to rethink crime as a career path," she said.
"I do, all the time," he said, "but nothing else gives me the
same job satisfaction." -- Donald E. Westlake, Put A Lid On It

David Bamford wrote:


Unfortunately where public health is at risk those infected don't get to
make the decisions. Those who have become infected in the first world
since the risk factors became known have already shown poor judgement
(with tragic consequences for themselves and likely for others as well).
So please don't ask to be allowed to make decisions that may well have a
disasterously negative effect on public health.

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 02:06:45 +1000, "David Bamford" <dj56@ihug.com.au>
wrote:

There's lots. Here's a nice one:
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/...ne-system.html

George M. Carter

Are you going to apologize for the people the dissidents have already
killed? Are you going to apologise to David Pasquarelli's family
(sorry to mention him, RIP, others I could mention but feel bad) for
the dissidents making him quit his medications and applaud him as he
got sicker and sicker for holding out from his meds? If not who? I
would, but respect for his family I leave it alone, but I sure know I
would like to hear an apology!

"David Bamford" <dj56@ihug.com.au> wrote in message news:<c4mf5o$fbo$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>...

Do we have to start all over with this crap again????

"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOF@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:406f0c1d$0$11065$a344fe98@news.wanadoo.nl...

I don't tell people to do anything, I just suggest they look at both sides
of the story and make an informed decision of thier own, my partner of 10
years is taking the drugs and I don't discurrage him, be he knows both sides
of the story and made a different choice to me, that's fine. I don't want
to make anyones choices for them, do you?
"http://www.HIVsearch.com" <dave@poz.ca> wrote in message
news:b8d83a5.0404040642.7d0b9567@posting.google.co m...

"http://www.HIVsearch.com" <dave@poz.ca> schreef in bericht
news:b8d83a5.0404040642.7d0b9567@posting.google.co m...
Talk about hyperbole. No chance of you apologizing for all
the people who offed themselves after being found "positive"
by your bullshit tests.

Alex

The Emperor has no clothes!
Deconstructing HIV and AIDS

Edited by Robert Johnston

"The World Health Organization studied prostitutes in a little coastal
African country above Liberia. They found that 75 percent of the
prostitutes were HIV-positive and predicted that five years later half of
them would be dead. In five years they came back and there were no bodies
to count. Still they're HIV-positive, according to their tests. (Actually,
they're positive due to a cross-reactivity.) The conclusion of a paper on
this published in Nature was that these people had a special strain of HIV
which firstly does not cause any disease and secondly protects you from
the strains that are rampant throughout Africa.

It even said that we ought to study these people further to develop a
vaccine. Even a sixth grader looking at the logic of this would say, 'Wait
a minute. The emperor has no clothes here!' There's something seriously
wrong with the minds of people who don't examine direct evidence of their
conclusions being wrong."

~ Dr. Kary Mullis, biochemist, 1993 Nobel prize for chemistry

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:59:08 -0400, "PaulKing"
<aimulti@aimultimedia.com> wrote:

What Nature paper? When was this written? Where was it published?

Five years in Liberia with HIV is a good long time to live in general
but certainly not impossible. Was it HIV-1 or HIV-2?

This is a very weak paper that means nothing.

George M. Carter