Rich wrote:
Perfect nutrition will prevent or mitigate a vast number of chronic
conditions, from cancer to diabetes to depression to obesity to
arthritis to Crohn's and IBS and other GI problems to heart disease to
immune suppression and lowered resistance to a multitude of infections
and infectious agents to chronic fatigue syndrome etc etc.

The only dietary advice I hear coming from MDs is to cut dietary
cholesterol to control blood lipids, which is nonsense. To cut fat and
calories to lose weight, which is nonsense. To cut salt to cut blood
pressure, which is nonsense. That is the average depth of MDs
understanding of nutrition as it relates to human health. And that is
not nearly enough for them to aproach the subject with any kind of
critical thinking skills.

A close friend of mine suffered from chronic fatigue syndrome, and yes
there is such a thing as chronic fatigue syndrome, and the MDs strung
her along for almost a year and in the end told her it was all in her
head. Does that sound familiar? "We can't figure it out in a couple of
ten minute doctors office visits, therefore it must not exist." Well,
she went to a naturopath who immediately changed her diet. Within days
she was improving and within months she was well.

On average, someone with a back problem will go to MDs and other such
medical professionals for *12 years* before they find someone who can
actually help them. I was one of these people, I got lucky and only
took 18 months of going to different MDs before I found one that knew
what he was talking about. The guy is a sports injury doctor. The
difference with sports injury doctors, is that their goal is not just
to pad their patient schedule but to actually effect a positive result
for the patient. They are amazingly attuned to actually getting
results. That is, sadly to say, only in comparison with the typical MD.

In most cases of back problems, the only tool the MD has is pills or
surgery. They have no concept of any other way of treating back
problems. And most times they end up making things worse. They don't
even know which one of their colleagues to send their patients to to
actually achieve positive results. All they know is that they don't
know much about back problems, but they know what drugs to try or which
surgeon to send you to. They are prepared to try all kinds of thing
that may or may not work, They don't what is causing the back problems
and they don't know how to fix it but they are more than willing to
blindly try all kinds of shit like pills, surgery, extended bedrest,
traction, etc. "Try this then come back in two weeks and we'll se how
it went." So very helpful.

Then there are surgeons. Surgeons are virtually incapable of
considering any other treatment options other than surgery. Not too
many surgeons will tell you that your best option is not surgery.

An MD is taught the names of all the parts of the body. They are taught
all the names and symptoms of all the conditions and diseases. Then
they ar given a list of pills and surgical procedures that they can
apply to the conditions and disease. And that is basically it. On
average, if an MD gets more than 3 months of training in nutrition, it
is the exception and not the rule. Do a google search on medical
training or medical schools or medical universities. The different
universities will have their course outlines on the net. Have a look at
how much of their courses are dedicated to nutrition. It would surprise
you. I did exactly that some time ago and found out first hand that
most universities will give their MDs in training maybe one or two
courses in basic intro to nutrition and nothing more. When I say that
MDs get little or no training in nutrition, I am not just blowing smoke
up your butt, I base it on what I've seen in the universities course
outlines themselves. Check it out for yourself.

Exceptional health cannot be attained without exceptional nutrition.
Period. Without proper nutrition, one cannot possibly be healthy. Good
nutrition is an absolute pre-requisite for good health.

And for MDs to sit there and rarely ever even consider nutrition to be
a cause or a cure for many of the conditions that ail us, is absolute
lunacy.

At the very least, proper nutrition will place the patient in the best
possible position for other cure or treatments to succeed. Even that
idea is not considered by the MD. Considering the patients nutritional
status and improving it should be the bedrock corner stone of our
approach to health care. Once nutrition has been properly addressed,
then the MD can consider additional treatments options.

The word "doctor" means teacher. I've not ever been taught anything by
a doctor. Except how often to take my pills and how many to take at one
time.

TC

Appendicitis is an infection. Proper diet enables the bodies inherent
ability to hold off infections. Most, if not all kidney stones are a
result of improper diet.

You really do not get it, do you? You simply cannot fathom the concept
of the human body having the inherent ability to remain healthy and/or
heal itself when properly nourished. MDs don't heal people, they are
there to facilitate the bodies ability to heal itself.

The human body, given the optimal nourishment, will maintain its health
and the ability to heal itself. Without the intervention of MDs and
their drugs.

TC

TC wrote:
And BTW, I also CURED myself of anxiety/depression using proper
nutrition combined with supplements.

All the doctor had to offer was pills that made things worse and
produced horrendous side effects, not to mention cost me hundreds of
dollars per month. It took him less than a 10 minute visit to review
the symptoms, go over my history, diagnose the condition and prescribe
the drug, with little to no follow up.

TC

"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160144799.061756.126360@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Cancer is too broad a term for this to be true. Yes, we are learming more
and more about such preventive benefits as anti-oxidants reducing the rate
of cancer in general, and high fiber diets being somewhat preventive of
bowel cancer. But still, people with excellent diets do get cancer. Good
nutrition can reduce your risk of cancer just as good driving can reduce
your risk of dying in an accident. But like many drivers drive drunk and
stupid for years without mishap, millions and millions of people live to
ripe old age on absolutely abysmal diets.

Nobody denies that nutrition contributes to health, but even the very best
of nutrition cannot entirely prevent any of these diseases, nor will poor
diet inevitably cause any of them.

Any doctor will tell you that exercise is more effective in controlling
cholesterol than diet.

Not nonsense at all. Calorie control and exercise are the only way to lose
weight. All other effective methods are so only because they influence
calorie intake or encourage more exercise.

Sodium does affect blood pressure, and many patients benefit from reduced
salt intake. No nonsense here, either.

Anecdotes do not prove scientific claims.


Yet more anecdotal nonsense. As for padding the patient schedule, most
general practitioners I know are overwhelmed by their patient schedule and
are not accepting new patients at all. I also doubt your perception that
sports docs are more result oriented than any other physicians.


Not at all. They use physical therapists as referral resources. They also
prescribe such adjuncts as heat, rest, and exercises, and use of proper body
mechanics.

Bullshit.


Most will when that is the case. The key to successful surgery is selecting
those cases which can be helped by surgery. The great surgeons with records
of very high rates of surgical success are not just those with great skills
in the OR--the actual cutting is monkey work that about anybody could learn.
They are great because they are great at recognizing those they can't help
and sending them back to the internists.


Bullshit. You have no idea of how a medical education works.

Those one or two courses are just the foundation. Doctors get much more
education in physiology and pathology, and the interaction of nutrients and
cells, tissues, and body chemistry are fundamental elements of that
education. Even a course in organic chemistry cannot take place in a vacuum
without including the actions of nutrients.


Perhaps that's because you doctors recognized that you are unteachable. Do
you think they have time to sit around and argue with you about how much
nutrition education they've had?


Neither assertion is true. There is no known correlation of diet to
appendicitis, it happens to perfectly healthy people at any age. There is a
correlation of diet to certain types of kidney stones, but heredity plays a
much larger role. Dyhydration is also a big factor, though since water is a
nutrient too, I suppose that could be classified as nutritional.


And you don't get it that nutrition is not the be-all end-all of health.
Well nourished people get sick too, and when they do they need other
intervention than diet change.

No doctor would disagree with that.


Not universally.

Not universally.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160157634.774323.250000@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Anecdotes do not prove scientific claims.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Rich wrote:
Nope but it does succeed in proving a very valid point. All we need now
is a published study that follows up on my personal discovery that
anxiety/depression can be cured or at least treated to some degree with
diet and supplements. But how many pharma companies would underwrite
this study. They sell billions of dollars worth of anti-depressants
every year and MDs make millions more prescribing them. We could put
thousands ofMDs and psychiatrists out of work overnight.

For twenty years mainstream medical people fought against the idea that
ulcers can be treated with a simple and cheap anti-biotic. Someone lost
a lot of income from lost treatment options there, eh?

MDs do not like change that leads to healthier patients and less work
and income for them.

TC

"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160167806.647941.272900@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
LOL! Yes! The silly asses were trying to treat ulcers with diet and
nutrition! By the way, metrnidazole was on the expensive end of antibiotics
the last time I looked.


Ha! My doctor would love to have half as many patients and more time to
spend with his family.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Rich wrote:
anti-oxydants = vitamins = real fresh whole foods

You are making some progress here.

Fiber is crap.

Now we know this do we? Few studies are done on this. But I would love
to see a study that compares directly the diets of cancer patients to
people with no signs of cancers.

But you see the direct effects of poor nutrition in peoples lives
directly. Moodiness, anxiety, depression, susceptibility to infections,
poor skin tone and color, susceptibility to colds and flus, poor
healing, more sick days, diabetes, obesity, heart disease and yes,
cancers.

My family went from needing dozens of prescriptions per year when
eating a lot of grains, margarine and low fat foods and since we've
started eating much less grains, more meat and animal fats, we have
gone to zero prescriptions in the last about 5 years. The contrast is
absolutely startling.

When I see the contrast between my family and other families I cringe.
I see it every time we eat at friends houses or go out to restaurants
with them.

It is absolutely essentil to good health. And it does cure many and
mitgates most chronic diseases. Poor diet most definitely causes
obesity, diabetes, IBS, Crohn's, and many many more chronic diseases.

Low carb diets will completely cure your high cholesterol levels in a
matter of months. Fact.

Calories are a factotum from the days when we had no understanding
whatsoever of human metabolism. Counting calories and restricting fats
to lose weight fails in more than 95% of cases.

The mechanism is carbs and foods which elevate our blood glucose levels
which in turn causes chronically high levels of insulin to be secreted
and force the body in a chronic fat storage state. The chronically high
levels of BG cause all kinds of damage to the pancreas which is forced
to produce massive quantities of insulin over the long-term which in
turn batters the insulin receptors to the point where they whither and
can no longer sense the insulin (insulin sensitivity is lessened).
Eventually the pancreas has produced its lifetimes worth of insulin and
cannot produce any more.

Please explain how exactly calories trigger fat storage? What are the
processes involved? Hormones? How does the body detect an excess of
calories and how does that trigger fat storage? And vice-versa, how
does the body detect a calorie deficit and how does that trigger fat
loss? Huh?

Only when they are in a state of malnourishment. I can eat all the salt
I want with no noticable changes.

But observation is the basic building block of science. And this
observation is valid. And it shows clearly that in this case, like many
other, the MDs were completely clued out about basic simple nutrition
and its effect on the body. And the naturopath did cure her supposedly
non-existant condition.

You would be amazed at the numbers of anecdotal evidence out there. The
12 year average I quoted above came from a book that contained about
120 anecdotal incidences of people with back problems. Very few, if any
of them, got any real healp from MDs.

Only because chiropractors essentially forced them to do something. The
whole physical therapist movement is a response to chiropractors
showing up the doctors. Physical therapists still have a long way to go
to catch up.

I personally know of probably a dozen or more people, including myself
and my mother in law, who experienced this "bullshit" first hand.

the "great surgeons" do not represent 100% of surgeons, do they?

Read the course outlines buddy. It is all there in B&W.

And pharmaceutical prescribing.......

Nope, I tend to ask questions. I do not waste time arguing with people
who have an infalated sense of absence of doubt. My time is valuable
too.

There is a direct correlation between diet and resistance to infection.
Appendicitis is an infection. Vitamin C is an anti-bacterial,
anti-fungal and anti-viral. And many other nutrients bolster that
resistance to infection. You still do not get it.

Well nourished people do not get sick, unless they are exposed to
exceptionally strong physical stress or physical injury. Don't you get
it?

And the body cannot function properly and heal itself and maintain
itself against infectious agents unless it is optimally nourished.

TC

TC wrote:
Why not apply to NCCAM for funding? That is what they are there for. Of
course, they have this nasty requirement that you MUST publish results,
even if it disproves your theory.

They sell billions of dollars worth of anti-depressants

"Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sczVg.464$gU6.13@tornado.socal.rr.com...
I did find what I recommend there.

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPr...whatisfms.html


http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/f...ia/fffibro.htm


Health Topics

PDF Version

Publication Date: March 2005
What Is Fibromyalgia?
Fast Facts: An Easy-to-Read Series of Publications for the Public

What Is Fibromyalgia?
What Causes Fibromyalgia?
Who Is Affected by Fibromyalgia?
How Is Fibromyalgia Treated?
What Can I Do to Try to Feel Better?
What Research Is Being Done on Fibromyalgia

What Is Fibromyalgia?

Fibromyalgia is a disorder that causes muscle pain and fatigue (feeling
tired). People with fibromyalgia have "tender points" on the body. Tender
points are specific places on the neck, shoulders, back, hips, arms, and
legs. These points hurt when pressure is put on them.

People with fibromyalgia may also have other symptoms, such as:

a.. Trouble sleeping
a.. Morning stiffness
a.. Headaches
a.. Painful menstrual periods
a.. Tingling or numbness in hands and feet
a.. Problems with thinking and memory (sometimes called "fibro fog").


What Causes Fibromyalgia?

The causes of fibromyalgia are unknown. There may be a number of factors
involved. Fibromyalgia has been linked to:

a.. Stressful or traumatic events, such as car accidents
a.. Repetitive injuries
a.. Illness
a.. Certain diseases.
Fibromyalgia can also occur on its own.

Some scientists think that a gene or genes might be involved in
fibromyalgia. The genes could make a person react strongly to things that
other people would not find painful.

Who Is Affected by Fibromyalgia?

Fibromyalgia affects as many as 1 in 50 Americans. Most people with
fibromyalgia are women. However, men and children also can have the
disorder. Most people are diagnosed during middle age.

People with certain other diseases may be more likely to have fibromyalgia.
These diseases include:

a.. Rheumatoid arthritis
a.. Systemic lupus erythematosus (commonly called lupus)
a.. Ankylosing spondylitis (spinal arthritis).
Women who have a family member with fibromyalgia may be more likely to have
fibromyalgia themselves.

How Is Fibromyalgia Treated?

Fibromyalgia can be hard to treat. It's important to find a doctor who is
familiar with the disorder and its treatment. Many family physicians,
general internists, or rheumatologists can treat fibromyalgia.
Rheumatologists are doctors who specialize in arthritis and other conditions
that affect the joints or soft tissues.

Fibromyalgia treatment often requires a team approach. The team may include
your doctor, a physical therapist, and possibly other health care providers.
A pain or rheumatology clinic can be a good place to get treatment.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not yet approved any
medicines to treat fibromyalgia. Doctors treat fibromyalgia with medicines
approved for other purposes. Pain medicines and antidepressants are often
used in treatment.

What Can I Do to Try to Feel Better?

There are many things you can do to feel better, including:

a.. Taking medicines as prescribed
a.. Getting enough sleep
a.. Exercising
a.. Eating well
a.. Making work changes if necessary.


What Research Is Being Done on Fibromyalgia?

The NIAMS sponsors research to help understand fibromyalgia and find better
ways to diagnose, treat, and prevent it. Researchers are studying:

a.. Why people with fibromyalgia have increased sensitivity to pain
a.. The role of stress hormones in the body
a.. Medicines and behavioral treatments
a.. Whether there is a gene or genes that make a person more likely to have
fibromyalgia.


For More Information on Fibromyalgia and Other Related Conditions:

National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
(NIAMS)
National Institutes of Health
1 AMS Circle
Bethesda, MD 20892-3675
Phone: 301-495-4484 or 877-22-NIAMS (226-4267) (free of charge)
TTY: 301-565-2966
Fax: 301-718-6366
E-mail: NIAMSInfo@mail.nih.gov
www.niams.nih.gov

The information in this publication was summarized in easy-to-read format
from information in a more detailed NIAMS publication. To order the
Fibromyalgia Q&A full-text version, please contact NIAMS using the contact
information above. To view the complete text or to order online, visit
http://www.niams.nih.gov.



March 2005

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPr...gia/index.html

Your Guide to Understanding and Improving Life
with Fibromyalgia and Other Chronic Pains

about the author.

Hmmm. His daughter.

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPr...gia/fms06.html

Links to Other Sites

http://www.myalgia.com/

http://www.myalgia.com/Scientific%20basis.htm

The Scientific Basis for Understanding
Pain in Fibromyalgia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I also Recommend the below, which blows your sicko blues making fun of real
conditions--right out of the water.



http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fib...079/DSECTION=1

Introduction

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fib...079/DSECTION=2

Signs and symptoms

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fib...079/DSECTION=3

Causes

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fib...79/DSECTION=11

Complementry and alternative medicine

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chronic-pain/PN00034

Chronic pain: When no physical cause can be found

Consider possible causes.
It's not your imagnation
What you feel is very real.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chronic-pain/PN00054

Chronic pain: How one woman found relief.

"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160169832.339054.250410@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
So now it's revealed that you are a "low-carb-cures-everything compulsive."
I'm tired of arguing with you.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Rich wrote:
No asshole, they were treating with expensive prescriptiions antacids
that caused more problems than they solved, and if that didn't work
they would resort to surgeries and cutting out pieces of peoples
innards. Idiot.

Sure I bet. Give up his 5 figure virtually guaranteed income without
having to actually produce positive results? Yeah, right.

TC

Rich wrote:

You should be tired of arguing because you are so ignorant of what real
nutrition is that you are just embarassing yourself.

I never said that low carb cures everything. But it just so happens
that the right foods that lead to proper nutrition are lower in carb.

150 lbs of sugar per year, which is the average in th US, will lead to
chronic conditions and disease. And refined RTE cereals contain no
useful nutrition. And refined white flour is completely empty of
nutrition. High fructose corn syrup is a slow poison which our children
are consuming in massive amounts.

You've been had by the food industry and their "science" that villifies
animal fats and proteins and ascribes nearly magical powers to grains
and fiber. Humans have eaten copious amounts of animal fats and
proteins for thousand of generations without massive amounts of obesity
and obesity related disease. In the last 30 years we've shifted our
diets to include more carbs (about 12% increase) and less fats (about
10% decrease). The result is massive increase in obesity and diabetes
and heart disease. The trends are locked in step, more grains, less
animal fats, more fat people and more disease. Only in the last 30
years have we seen the ballooning of american waists and a
corresponding increase in disease.

Just watch any television program or news report or documentary from
the 1950's and check out the average size of those people. They ate
their meat with an inch of fat around the outside, they drank full fat
milk and ate real butter, and had bacon and sausages for breakfast. And
few of them were fat or even a little bit chunky.

Then compare the people from the 1950s to the people you see around you
today who eat low fat RTE cereals with low fat sweetened orange juice
for breakfast and then eat low fat muffins and/or low fat bagels with
low fat spread and low fat milk in their coffees for lunch. Then they
eat low fat pasta with low fat sauces with low fat deserts for supper.
And on this all encompassing low fat diet they all end up fat and sick.

If you do not see the trend then you are a fool and are willingly blind
to it all.

TC

TC wrote:
Do you have any evidence for this?

"Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

An Australian naturopath was sentenced to five years in prison for
"curing" a kid with aortic stenosis by using jojoba oil and a Mora
machine. The cure was so successful that the kid did not have the
stenosis three weeks after diagnosis. He had a grave, however.

And what was the reaction of the alternative medicine industry to this
quack killing a kid?

I will let you guess.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Peter Bowditch wrote:
I would never justify that kind of stupidity from alternative medicine
or from the mainstream medicine. There are too many people out there
that are more than ready to try to make money off of the suffering of
others and I include MDs in that as well. They are the ones profitting
the most from questionable practices and treatments.

It has occurred where MDs have been known to cause death by treatment,
or lack of treatment, or denial of treatment. There are plenty of such
incidences documented. So this one incident may not be the best
argument for MDs and against alternative medicine. You may just have
opened pandoras box insofar as MDs are concerned.

TC

Chuck wrote:
There is plenty of empirical evidence.

Here is a start:

http://depression.about.com/cs/diet/a/vitamin.htm

http://dietary-supplements.info.nih..../vitaminb6.asp

"Vitamin B6 and the nervous system
Vitamin B6 is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as
serotonin and dopamine [1]. These neurotransmitters are required for
normal nerve cell communication. Researchers have been investigating
the relationship between vitamin B6 status and a wide variety of
neurologic conditions such as seizures, chronic pain, depression,
headache, and Parkinson's disease [18]."

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...idoxinecs.html

"Symptoms of pyridoxine deficiency include muscle weakness,
nervousness, irritability, depression, difficulty concentrating, and
short-term memory loss."

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...balamincs.html

"Vitamins B12, B6, and B9 (folate) work closely together to control
blood levels of the amino acid homocysteine. Elevated levels of this
substance appear to be linked with heart disease and, possibly,
depression and Alzheimer's disease."

http://www.psycom.net/depression.cen...olate_B12.html

And vitamin C has been shown to work synergistically with the b vitamin
complex to aleviate anxiety and depression.

Do you guys think that I am just making this shit up? What I say here
about food and nutrtion is the culmination of over 6 years of intense
self-education and study in the field of nutrition, and more
importantly, a very rigid application of a well developed bullshit
meter.

TC

In article <1160404243.836805.164810@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups. com>,
"Chuck" <chuckfrasher@gmail.com> wrote:

*
Evidence??

We don't got to show you no steenkin' evidence!

Signed:

The "Alternative Medicine" Indu$try.
*

"Earle Jones" <earle.jones@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:earle.jones-67B88C.17362715102006@netnews.comcast.net...
turns out to be at best incomplete and very often false, misleading,
fictitious, mendacious - just dead wrong."
Russell Wayne Baker

Earle Jones wrote:
Here is a start:


http://depression.about.com/cs/diet/a/vitamin.htm


http://dietary-supplements.info.nih..../vitaminb6.asp


"Vitamin B6 and the nervous system
Vitamin B6 is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as
serotonin and dopamine [1]. These neurotransmitters are required for
normal nerve cell communication. Researchers have been investigating
the relationship between vitamin B6 status and a wide variety of
neurologic conditions such as seizures, chronic pain, depression,
headache, and Parkinson's disease [18]."


http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...idoxinecs.html


"Symptoms of pyridoxine deficiency include muscle weakness,
nervousness, irritability, depression, difficulty concentrating, and
short-term memory loss."


http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...balamincs.html


"Vitamins B12, B6, and B9 (folate) work closely together to control
blood levels of the amino acid homocysteine. Elevated levels of this
substance appear to be linked with heart disease and, possibly,
depression and Alzheimer's disease."


http://www.psycom.net/depression.cen...olate_B12.html


And vitamin C has been shown to work synergistically with the b vitamin

complex to aleviate anxiety and depression.


Do you guys think that I am just making this shit up? What I say here
about food and nutrtion is the culmination of over 6 years of intense
self-education and study in the field of nutrition, and more
importantly, a very rigid application of a well developed bullshit
meter.


TC