On 12 Sep 2003 14:27:21 -0700, freeze2bees@yahoo.com (Peabody) wrote:
Gosh, you saw a surgeon, and he recommended surgery! What a shock!

I have never understood why, when a patient sees a doctor who makes a
diagnosis very quickly, the patient tends to interpret that as
evidence that the doctor must be very knowledgeable and therefore
correct, when in fact it could actually mean the doctor is simply not
very thorough and could very easily be completely off-base because of
subtleties in the history or physical exam that were missed. Instead
of being delighted that a doctor "instantly" "knew" what was wrong,
one should be wary instead that the doctor jumped to a conclusion and
may have missed something. Haste makes waste.

I remember, as a medical student, seeing a patient with a very astute
and wise preceptor. We gathered a detailed history on a patient's rash
and had begun to formulate a differential diagnosis when another
doctor who likes to rush in and out of patient rooms walked by, saw
the rash, and instantly declared, "That's tinea versicolor!" We
politely disagreed, but he nonetheless insisted on doing a KOH prep
right there. Naturally, he was disappointed in the results. It was a
good lesson for me.

I don't think it's necessary to impress patients or their families
with how hastily you can make a diagnosis. Heck, I'd say in general
day-to-day pediatric practice, I know about half the time from the
chief complaint already what the diagnosis will be before I even walk
in the room. If you pick up a chart of a 16-year-old girl that says
"knee pain x 2 mos." you can put the chart on your forehead like
Johnny Carson and say, "patellofemoral syndrome" then walk in the room
and be right >80% of the time, but I still get a complete history and
examine both knees, hips, ankles, and feet thoroughly before I draw
any conclusions. When a kid has a left earache, the left ear is the
part I examine last. This helps me not to missing anything else.

This all doesn't mean, of course, that I think you don't really need
your tonsils out. There's no way for me to know. You may very well
benefit from a tonsillectomy and have complete resolution of your
symptoms, and such results may be so common in this surgeon's
experience that he has developed such a low threshold for recommending
tonsillectomy for symptoms such as yours that he can indeed
appropriately recommend surgery to someone whom he just met. I just
hope you're not disappointed in the results.

PF

pfriley@watt-not.com (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<3f62bcd4.56596748@news.nwlink.com>...

Hi,

I just wanted to clarify that I don't think the doctor was being
hasty. He was aware of my past history, and he did discuss the issue
with me thoroughly. He examined my throat, and saw the state of my
tonsils. He said that they looked very irregular and displayed a lot
of scarring, and that they were probably of no use to me because of
this, and were quite obviously bound to cause problems.

I don't think he was looking for a quick diagnosis, more that IN MY
PARTICULAR CASE, the course of action appeared obvious. It was also
clear that he wasn't saying 'you must have a tonsillectomy', but
rather offering it as the most likely solution to my problems, should
I choose such a course of action.

On 13 Sep 2003 06:29:29 -0700, freeze2bees@yahoo.com (Peabody) wrote:

That's good to hear! Please let us know how you fare post-operatively.

PF

Just my experience
A few years ago I had the same simptoms except for the cold
intolerance. I felt absolutely down. My tonsils were infected, and I
continuosly felt a sore throat. I resisted surgery (tonsills out) for
some months, then subsised. I got better, but then I am not 100% sure
that it was due to the tonsils. One thing seemed to me: when someone
tonsiils are infected (not ocasionally) but for several months may be
better to have them out. Other thing: large tonsiils do not
necessarily means infection. Sometimes the small ones are the most
troublesome.

just Nico



pfriley@watt-not.com (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<3f63a36b.115633189@news.nwlink.com>...

Damn PF, that was good. t
"PF Riley" <pfriley@watt-not.com> wrote in message
news:3f62bcd4.56596748@news.nwlink.com...

Virginia wrote:

Canada eh?
Well start with a list of your signs and symptoms on paper and sci.med.
Then get your GP to check you for anemias, and esp B12 and (possibly) folic
acid.
Absorption can be a problem requiring B12 injections.
(B12 comes from animal proteins, which apparently you're cutting back on?)
I was getting sudden crashes same as you and it was B12 absorption problem and
lack of red meat.

Here's (some) lymph nodes
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003097.htm
(what's been ruled out on that list?) ..and autoimmune does fall under the
purview of rheumy's but the rheumy's need more than what you've posted to get a
working diagnosis or rule some things out.

If you try, I'll try but not while you're possibly getting misinformation on
alt.health.
I'll watch for your new post on sci.med (if applicable)
Update us if you get it figured out.
J

Thanks, J. I'd appreciate it you could e-mail me personally.

Also see my newer post "Tiredness, Lethargy, Crashing."

--

Virginia
"Forgiveness is easier to obtain than permission."

www.thedesignuniverse.com

"J" <Faked@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3F6837B5.F47E7113@execulink.com...

vuela_poclo@hotmail.com wrote in message news:<4e95865a.0309150303.7a92ea68@posting.google. com>...
Hi,

I definitely see your point, and with symptoms as subtle as these,
it makes sense to look at other avenues. There's no way of telling if
the tonsils are the cause or the response to the infections. The thing
for me though is that my tonsils are more than just enlarged, they're
scarred and jagged, and red a lot of the time. In the state they are,
it's hard to imagine them NOT causing problems. Also, my sypmtoms have
persisted for years (apparently, assuming it IS the tonsils causing
the problem, the older you get then the less likely the problem is to
go away). By the way, I can't tell when you say 'I resisted surgery
(tonsils out) for some months, then subsided' what actually happened.
Did you actually get your tonsils out in the end?

Thanks.

freeze2bees@yahoo.com (Peabody) wrote in message news:<19bbcabf.0309210019.6d52bbb2@posting.google. com>...
Hi

Yes, I eventually had the tonsils out. I do not regret at all. If you
say that for long time your tonsills have been red and infected, seems
pretty obvious they have to go. Mine tonsiils had a white creamy
liquid (bad taste in the mouse) comming off them, and THAT is normaly
signal that they have to be removed (if this happens for a long
time)as soon as possible. My fear was that having the tonsils out I
would loose the anti-bacterial protection they give, and beggining to
have laringites and bronquites. None of that happend. Never had a
serious sore throat ever since the surgery.
One word of caution: in adults the pos-operation is a bit more
painfull then in children, but nothing serious.

just Nico

pfriley@watt-not.com (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<3f63a36b.115633189@news.nwlink.com>...

Hi all,

Well, 3 weeks from having started the thread, I've had the
tonsillectomy performed. I'm now on the 3rd day since having the
surgery done (almost exactly 48 hours), and yes, it is PRETTY painful.
The earache, as predicted, has come on today, and the throat is still
swollen. All of the pain however is only triggered by swallowing, so I
wouldn't claim to be in constant pain. I'm on painkillers (some
derivative of codin), anti-inflammatory medication and anti-biotics.
Am also feeling groggy too, a bit woozy, though well enough to get
on-line or wash the car!

I'm sure there may be more painful days than this, though the first 3
post-op days are hardly the most easy. The surgeon mentioned ear ache
as the major side-effect after the swelling and general discomfort,
but he didn't talk about bleeding as being very likely in his
experience. I've found out that since going to him, he's considered
one of the best in his field round here, and very adept at
tonsillectomies. As for the resolution of my symptoms, it's obviously
to soon to tell (post-op trauma, pain and general dazy confusedness
make it hard to judge!) but of course I shall be posting again soon to
update y'all.

Thanks.

P.S. anyone have any recommendations as to how to handle my recovery
(eating/drinking/medication)? I've been instructed since day one to
eat as normal, and i have had proper meals, but mixed in with a heady
diet of ice lollies and ice cream...everything in moderation i say!
Also, are bleeding and earache almost certain post-op, or more of a
rarity? I was led to believe (and have only experienced) ear-ache
being a side-effect, not bleeding.

Hi
Glad to know everything went al-right.
The only time (as as adult) I was in tears in front of my parents was
after tonsillectomy. The pos-operation throat pain was excrutiating
(sorry I did not say this before to avoid scare you). I was unable to
speak for about 5 days. As for the food I avoided solids in the first
few days.I did eat lots of soups and purees. As I do not like ice
cream, did not eat any contrary to doctors advice. I did not have ear
pain or bleeding.

enjoy tour ice-creams and get well fast....

just Nico

freeze2bees@yahoo.com (Peabody) wrote in message news:<19bbcabf.0309250452.6ef64757@posting.google. com>...

Hi,

Well just another update, I'm on the sixth night since the operation
now. Am surprised at how persistent the symptoms are, i thought by now
I'd be feeling pretty ok. The swollen throat is still there, as is the
ear ache, plus an increasing tightness where the wounds are. The pain
comes and goes, right now for example I'm pretty ok, swallowing is
only mildly uncomfortable. Annoyingly I've been feeling feverish and
clammy the past four nights, and have run a temperature at times.
Could it be post-op fever? A new infection? Something I went into the
operation with? Am on anti-biotics just to play it safe.

Laters.


vuela_poclo@hotmail.com wrote in message news:<4e95865a.0309260723.3bd5528e@posting.google. com>...

Dude, if that is the same antibiotic you were already on,
then i think u should call your Dr, and he may call u in
a different Rx to pick up at the pharmacy.

--
~Ray~



"Peabody" <freeze2bees@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:19bbcabf.0309281248.5b78ce55@posting.google.c om...

"Deathray" <Deathray13@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<vngo5dlhustc0a@corp.supernews.com>...
Hiya,

Nope, I'm on a different anti-biotics to the original ones they gave
me coming out of the operation. Am feeling better gradually, though
ever so slowly (8th day post-op!). I don't worry about the earaches,
throat pain or discomfort in the actual wound area, that's a given
with this operation. What's worrying me is the general feeling of ill
health (chills, sweating, etc.), coz I underwent this operation
precisely to rid myself of those symptoms!!!

Dang eight days seems like a long time, but so long as
its getting better...
Dude, take some Dimetapp for the pressure on your ear
it's not good to keep pressure on your ears like that.
Possibly after your throat finishes healing, the chills and other
sx will go away, it's too early to throw in the towel.

--
~Ray~

"Peabody" <freeze2bees@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:19bbcabf.0310010256.43ff25d1@posting.google.c om...

Deathray wrote:

You trusted an ALLOPATH??? YIKES MAN...I wish you;ld contacted
me first...EAR ACHES are "CONGESTIVE in nature and there are a few
ways to dispell them IF you know the cause?? A GOOD decongestant
would be a start! IRRIGATION of the ears from outside and clearing
the
Eustacian tubes from within with anti-inflamatories. LOTS of VITAMIN
"C"
Once a KNIFE has been used..healing even takes longer if ever! B-0b1

Robert McCarty <sos@Grandecom.net> wrote:

Someone hasn't read the whole thread, has he?

"The cause" would be tonsillectomy totally unrelated to his ears.

You knew that, right? ;-)

Peabody writes:

I had continual problems with tonsilitis in my childhood until my
tonsils were finally removed. My sister did, too. I still recall many
late nights sitting up with fever and chills while my parents tried to
take care of me. After my tonsils were removed, I didn't have any
problems.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Hi,

Yep, your point about not throwing in the towel is right, I need to
be fully healed at least before I can start to make judgements on
whether it's worked or not. Guess I've just been getting a little fed
up, and panicky. Besides, I'm not running a temperature anymore, and
chills are much less. Still feeling pretty weak and disorientated,
though that's improved a bit today too. Am sweating quite a bit
actually, but I understand that if that's the only symptom (no fever,
chills, etc.) then it can be a GOOD sign, that your body is finally
winning against the infections that its fighting.

As for the earache, yeah, it's been surprisingly persistent. The
surgeon warned me to expect it, which is why I haven't done anything.
I'll give it another 3 days, if not then I'll take something to help
it. Or would you recommend taking action sooner?

Thanks.

"Deathray" <Deathray13@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<vnn97o8n4ota15@corp.supernews.com>...

Dude, hopefully your ear pain is gone by now, i've been told that the
pressure
on the ear can lead to an infection, so Dimetapp is a safe way to go.
They say, that if you press on the area behind the ear, that it will hurt if
you have
an ear infection.

Don't let yourself get dehydrated or sick from not eating and drinking.
If your feeling weak and disoriented then u probably need to do more of
both,
unless of course u are diabetic.
--
~Ray~

"Peabody" <freeze2bees@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:19bbcabf.0310020337.575c00b9@posting.google.c om...