On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:11:14 -0400, "Kevin G. Rhoads" <Kevin.Rhoads@Dartmouth.edu> wrote:

imho, we, in the USA, need these things:

we need to put the brakes on skyrocketing
health care costs in the USA, whether it's
for docs or meds or whatever

we need to get the media (especially TV news)
out of the "health care" loop

we need the FDA to change drastically, mainly
to be more of a provider of information and to
be *less* of a watchdog. there are *no*
meds that are perfectly safe, and it is the
patient (primarily) who should be made aware
of that coz the docs and FDA already know it

we need to have patients play a bigger part
in their own health care, and especially to be
a bigger part of their own medical team


i've no tongue in cheek on the above.

as far as i've been able to figure out, the only
way it's gonna happen is if we have everyone in
the USA pay out of pocket

but for that to happen, we'll also need some
draconian changes in the political arena.
for one we'd need to outlaw health insurance
from work. for another we'd need to mandate
that insurers could not exclude anyone nor
charge different rates/coverage for those
who've pre-existing conditions. not to mention
that the employers would be obliged to pay
that saved health care cost money to the
employees, and maybe even that it be ID'd
as "health" income and not be taxed

which is why it won't happen and will contine
to get worse for as far as i can see into
the future

bill

In article <buiojvcjqn0orio70scmc6fn5mif7f0rv4@4ax.com>,
NOmail@NOmail.net says...
ITA with everything you said, but for me it's particularly aggravating
to have to pay for health insurance which is supposed to cover my health
care, but then have to go OUT of the system to pay out of pocket for my
thyroid treatment (doctor's visits, lab tests, pills) because no doctor
in the HMO in this area would even treat me, with a tsh of 3.5. I feel
like I'm being gouged...when I pay for a lab test, for example, I have
to pay whatever the lab asks, but when my dh needs a lab test, he pays a
small copay and it's just astounding how much the ins. co. lowers the
bill. For example, he had over $300 in tests recently, and the ins. co.
lowered it to 1/10th of that...that's all they paid - $30 - and the lab
had to eat the rest, because of their agreement with the ins. co. But
the private patient (or uninsured patient) would have to pay the entire
$300.

Same thing with the doctor. My dh paid $15 copay (we do pay for ins.
for both of us) to an HMO doctor for his medical problem, but because I
have to go to a private doctor to get thyroid treatment, I have to pay
$75 for each visit, whereas if a HMO doctor saw me and actually believed
I needed thyroid treatment, my copay would have been $15 too.

I pay all this because I need to and it's worth it to get my health
back, so I don't usually complain, but since you brought up the
skyrocketing costs, I thought I'd mention this, because I'm sure it's a
problem for alot of people.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:48:00 -0500, Guy <gswil@intertex.net> wrote:
<snip>

you're focusing on details and not fundamentals


<snip>
it's not unlike price controls vs. free markets

iow, it takes a lot of time for truth to show up.
it took the falacy of the USSR system 74 years
to "snap"

what bothers me about our current direction
on health care in the USA is that we continue
to put more and more of the money into the
pocket of the system

which means that there is less money in our
own pockets coz that money has to come from
somewhere. it also means that others get overly
involved in making the health care decisions that
we should be making ourselves (with their
secondary assistance)

it's no surprise to me that the current democrat
proposals are all going in the direction of putting
more money into the pocket of the system. i doubt
very much that it will be a good long term solution.

bill

skipperbeers wrote:

hi skipper,

thank you for a thoughtful response.

imo, the costs wouldn't be skyrocketing if we
all paid out of pocket coz paying out of pocket
is the one best thing that provides real restraint.
when it's the other guy's dollar, there's NO restraint




imo, paying out of pocket is the best way to solve
this coz the *patient* would STRESS/focus-on costs
and alternatives with the doc(s), and would go
elsewhere the moment they felt that the doc wasn't
doing that for them


imo, paying out of pocket would solve this too.


agreed.


<snip skipper's comment to rhoades>

i get worried when part of the response includes
"the rich get richer" coz there's a real chance that
you're not seeing the fundamentals. btw, i'm not
always the best on details, at least in what goes
on in the health care biz, but i'm a decent system
analyst and tend to see fundaments ok

iow, i'm not worried about the rich getting richer so
long as they help in getting better health care that
is less expensive and available to everyone. that's
a win/win in my book

also see my reponse to guy williams (which i x-posted
into the thyroid n/g)


i'm leary of making comments on details,
important as they may be

i can say that it's not clear to me exactly what
political changes (of which i suggested a few
above, which i underlined) we'd need to make
in order for us to move to paying out of pocket

bill

"Tycho M. Bass" wrote:
somebody else, or else you are robbed or assaulted and need police
services. We all pay for everybody else for something, be it through
insurance or taxes. The debate becomes what services do we pool our
money for, and what do we pay for completely by ourselves.

Again, I do not have any hard answers, I am just asking questions.

Dennis (Type 2)
--
The temperature has already climbed over 70 fahrenheit on its way to
another sweltering day. The brutal cancerous glare of the sun continues
to beat down mercilessly. Pollen will soon be choking the air along with
the smog. The West Nile laden mosquitos drone on incessantly, lying in
wait for a chance to pounce. In other words, it is the start of just
another typical day in the Hell on this Earth that every body else
lovingly calls summer.