Dear all:

Because of the DMV is such an evil entity, it tries to charge you
sales tax on used cars. This is completely insane. No used items
should be charged tax. I know even used guns bought at gun shops do
not carry any sales tax. The DMV is just pure evil incarnate.

After just waiting in line for two hours to get a simple title
and temp tag at the DMV, I am very angry not only at the fees I paid,
but at the attitude of these govt. apathetic workers. I would suggest
everyone, in order to pay lower taxes, report prices much lower than
the actual amount. You cannot fight the DMV head on. You will have
to be as crafty as the DMV is.

When I skirt an unjust law/policy, I become very proud of it. I
am righting a wrong, and there is no other way to do it.

Did you know that the DMV in CA brought in 5 billion dollars just
in registration fees alone? That figure is a 10 year old figure. For
5 billion dollar what does DMV do for you? They only think of more
ways to steal your money. I recommend everyone try to steal (except
it isn't stealing when you take back what is originally yours) back
what is rightfully theirs in the first place. I recommend everyone
report low low sales prices. In order to make it less suspicious,
make sure the seller writes two bills of sales. One sale stating that
the car needs majore mechanical work. So, for example, if a car was
bought for $5000, have the seller write a bill that states the car
needs majore engine and exhaust work. If there is a line "seller
provides no warranty," it would further look more legit. "Car is sold
as is!" Sales price written on bill should about 1/10 the real price.
This would save you ten-fold in sales tax.

People. It is time we all start doing something to stem the
thievery that is the DMV.

I know no one here can really argue with me about this issue. If
you do argue, I will simply call you a governement sympathizer. And
you don't want to be called a govt sympathizer by fellow American, do
you? No. You don't. So go forth and claim what is yours and let no
government seize your $$$ or property without due process.

Signed: Proud Citizen (law abiding citizen--except for unjust laws)
of U.S.A.

"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0402241221.3ca8fbba@posting.google.c om...
That's nothing. Try buying a brand new car and paying full sales tax on it
right before (a few months before) your employer decides to move you to
another state. Now pay full sales tax on the new car TWICE. -Dave

Now if you only knew how the REST of the government screws you even
worse! ;-) ;-)



John

--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven

LovingPerson wrote:
I believe the CA DMV now figures sales tax on used cars using their own
estimated value, ignoring the amount on the BOS.

Lisa

That is probably NOT the case. States allow for purchases out of
state IF a sales tax was paid on the vehicle. At the most you
should only need to pay the difference in the tax, if the new
states sales tax is higher that the one in which it was
purchased.


mike hunt

"Dave C." wrote:

In article <fed77941.0402241221.3ca8fbba@posting.google.com>, saylo1234
@aol.com says...
DMV isn't the one to blame. It's the state legislature that has
recognized what a cash cow DMV can be.

I too find taxation of a used car sale to be ridiculous. Around here
(RI) lets say someone buys a new $40,000 car.

First pass - RI gets $2,800 in tax revenue plus $60 to register it for
two years.

Second pass - Car is now 3 years old, maybe worth $25,000 - state gets
$1,750 in tax revenue.

Third pass - Car is now 6 years old, approximate worth $12,000 - state
gets $840 in tax revenue

Fourth pass - Car is now 10 year old, worth $6000 - state gets $420 in
tax revenue.

So in ten years - the state general fund nets $5,810 in tax revenue, or
on average about $581 a year. But if you look at the value of the car
when new you see that the total ten year amount actually represents a
15% overall taxation rate.

It gets worse - in RI we have property taxes on vehicles. In a city like
Providence the rate is $73 per thousand of valuation. In it's first year
that $40,000 car would net Providence $2,920, and in it's last year the
city gets $438. Total property taxes probably amount to $12,000 or so in
total.

Did I mention gasoline? State of RI gets .38 per gallon. Let's say your
new car gets 20MPG and you drive 20,000 miles a year.

Tax revenue from gasoline = (20,000/20)*.38 = $380 a year in tax revenue
pretty much for the ten year life of the car that I've detailed.
Therefore over the ten years it's an additional $3800.

So adding it all up we see the total in taxes paid on this one car, if
it were to add it up:

$5,810 + $12,000 + $3,800 = $21,610 in taxes paid. So that $40,000 car
generated more then half it's value in tax revenue. Nice deal huh?


In RI they'd challenge it. I know people who've salvaged cars and then
argued with DMV for weeks over it's value for tax purposes.

But then we have an irresponsible state legislature that doesn't seem to
know the value of money. But again, they make all sorts of money
peddling access to the legislature. Just go look at
<http://www.projo.com> and read the articles about what our legislators
are doing.

Lisa Horton wrote:
Whenever anything (except food and whatever other stuff is exempt) is
purchased by anyone, even at a yard sale, the seller is supposed to
collect the ~8% sales tax and forward it to the Board of Equalization.
If the seller doesn't collect it, the buyer is supposed to send it in.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ================
"America is at an awkward stage: it is too late to work within the
system, but it is too early to shoot the bastards." -Claire Wolfe

"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0402241221.3ca8fbba@posting.google.c om...
In Ontario Canada, we also have to pay sales taxes on pre-owned vehicles,
and no, it doesn't seem right that we should pay sales tax on a vehicle
where it has already been levied.. having said that, it is a SALES tax that
we are paying, and there is undoubtedly a sale during the process of
transferring a vehicle from one person to another.. sometimes, loose wording
is more effective than a whole bunch of small print that covers all legal
exits.. :) .. unfortunately, the Ontario Provincial Government does not base
the tax on the actual sale price of the vehicle.. they go by 'book' price,
thus closing the exit that allows a buyer to get two receipts, one being the
actual monies paid, and the other being a reasonable sum..

Hell, that's nothing. Here in Kansas, we have to claim LAST years STATE
refund as this years income. Now if that ain't double taxation, nothin is.

--
Steve
=========


"LovingPerson" <saylo1234@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fed77941.0402241221.3ca8fbba@posting.google.c om...

"Steve Barker" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FLR_b.3149$QP.1414@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Just one of the many benefits of living in a 'free' country..

"Steve Barker" <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FLR_b.3149$QP.1414@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
| Hell, that's nothing. Here in Kansas, we have to claim LAST years STATE
| refund as this years income. Now if that ain't double taxation, nothin is.
|

Same in Maryland. Although the amount was deducted the previous year, so I
suppose it really is a 1-year tax deferral.

In article <EiR_b.11585$Mo4.360351@news20.bellglobal.com>, Mike Hall wrote:
IL collected some sort of sales/use tax on the torqueless wonder which I
got for *FREE*. Although I got a reduced rate because it was so old and
came from direct relative.

"The Real Bev" <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:403BC85D.7E45D877@myrealbox.com...
Not always true. This is only the case if the buyer is a resident of the
state
that the sale is taking place in. If the buyer is out of state then the US
Supreme
Court has ruled that the seller only is required to collect state sales tax
for
states that they have a "nexus" in, ie: a presence.

Of course this is violated all the time. If I travel from Oregon (which has
no sales tax) to Washington and buy a hamburger, I end up paying Washington
sales tax even though I'm a resident of Oregon and am legally entitled to
not have to pay Wasington sales tax. Most major appliance stores in
Washington have figured this out finally and will provide waviers I can sign
to not have to pay the sales tax on big ticket items.

Of course, it works the other way too - because so many Washington residents
will drive over the border and buy their refrigerators and such from Oregon
and of course not pay the sales tax to Washington for these purchases
because
they don't declare them, so Oregon benefits from the extra job creation.

Ted

"Tony P." <kd1s@nospamplease.verizon.reallynospam.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1aa58ce473c6b5fa98978d@news.verizon.net.. .

You forgot income taxes, though. Each seller when they sell the used car
is supposed to declare the sale amount as income and pay taxes on that.

Ted

As viewed from alt.california, Scott in Aztlán wrote:

Absolutely. In fact, that's why I joined AAA back in 1987. I was
buying a car from an individual who was a longtime AAA member. We
went to the auto club office and were told that while they could
give us the required forms, we'd have to take them to the DMV for
processing. When I asked if this was because I, the purchaser,
wasn't a member I was told "yes". At the time, it cost $50 to
join the club, so I slapped a fifty dollar bill on the counter
and asked for an application. As soon as I'd joined, we were
able to complete the vehicle transfer in minutes, and I've been
a member ever since. In fact, if I ever buy a car from an individual
again and he's not a member, *I'll* buy him a year's membership
rather than face the horrors of the DMV office.

--
Jafo

In article <403BC85D.7E45D877@myrealbox.com>,
The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote:
California's that bad? Most states exempt used personal items sold on
an occasional basis (that is, not part of a business). So yard sales
are exempt. Cars still get special treatment.
--
Matthew T. Russotto mrussotto@speakeasy.net
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
a modicum of security is a very expensive vice.

In article <FLR_b.3149$QP.1414@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
Steve Barker <railphotonut@not.hotmail.com> wrote:
So if you underpay the tax, can you claim last year's payment as a
deduction to this year's income?
--
Matthew T. Russotto mrussotto@speakeasy.net
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
a modicum of security is a very expensive vice.

Matthew Russotto wrote:
Don't know if CA is "that bad," but I'd like to see all the people who
actually send the B of E tax money from yard sales! :-)

I'll bet they're all upstanding Republicans--NOT!



John

--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven

In article <newscache$zawmth$pvb1$1@news.ipinc.net>,
tedm@toybox.placo.com says...
I deliberately left income tax out of the equation to keep the cost
purely related to the car itself.

"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message news:<newscache$v6wmth$ovb1$1@news.ipinc.net>...

I am all for Oregon. Oregon is a great state, it sounds like.
It deserves to have the job creation. That is how it is supposed to
work. Make things easier for the businesses to survive and do it
transactions and get rewarded. Cudos for OR!

sincerely. Signed: Libertarian at heart--though he lives in a
democrat world.