I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering
from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past
year, and usually they only lasted about 10-12 hours.

However I recently had an "attack" start about FIVE days ago, and it
has only gotten worse each day. What do I need to do here? Just ride
it out? Is five days a long time to have an attack?

When my doctor diagnosed me he told me all I could do is ride out an
attack--and he prescribed me Ibuprofen for the pain--which didn't
help.

This seems odd that there are no anti-flammatory drugs or something to
help it go away. I could not even mind having the crystals drained
from my foot as I am in extreme pain.

Please give any and all advice/experience.

Thanks!

Med Hypotheses 1999 Nov;53(5):407-12

Effect of gradual accumulation of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, slow depletion
of zinc and copper, ethanol or fructose ingestion and phlebotomy in gout.

Johnson S

[Medline record in process]

Gout affects mostly males over 40 years old and, occasionally,
postmenopausal women. This pattern coincides with the pattern of iron
accumulation. On the other hand, menstruating women are seldom
afflicted by gout, because the monthly blood loss causes them to
accumulate iron to a much lesser degree. Gout involves seven aspects:
(1) uric acid overproduction from increased purines in the diet; (2)
uric acid overproduction from ATP degradation; (3) uric acid
overproduction from increased de novo synthesis of purines; (4) uric
acid overproduction from increased DNA breakdown from cell damage; (5)
decreased uric acid elimination, caused by molybdenum and sulfur
binding to copper in the kidneys; (6) precipitation of sodium
urate-iron crystals in the joints due to high ferritin and saturated
transferrin and low CuZn-SOD and Cu-thionein in the joint; (7)
development of inflammation, triggered by tyrosine bonding to the
sodium-urate-iron crystals and being transformed by tyrosine kinase.
Alcohol and iron greatly affect most of these aspects. Therefore,
phlebotomy is suggested as therapy for gout patients, in order to
eliminate the accumulated Fe. Furthermore, yearly blood donation is
recommended for males with a family history of gout, so as to prevent
Fe accumulation and avoid gout.

PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

"John Prince" <emailjohnprince@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f7ec8143.0406220459.5364a0b5@posting.google.c om...

Hi,,, I am going to give you a post and reply from another newsgroup about
gout. It is full of good information.

Harv

Gareth Slee wrote:



From the Arthritis Foundation:


In gout, certain chemical processes in the body are out of control.
One of these affects uric acid, a normal waster product that comes
from the breakdown of substances called purines, which are found in
many foods as well as in all the cells of the body.

Uric acid usually circulates in the blood until it is passed into
urine through the kidneys. People with gout have too much uric acid
in their blood, a condition called hyperuricemia. The uric acid
changes into crystals (urate crystals) that deposit in joints and
other tissues.

Some of these crystals may then then fall from the joint lining into
the fluid-filled space within the joint or else form in the joint
fluid itself.

These free urate crystams trigger a severe inflammatory reaction,
the accute attack of gout arthritis. An attack can be triggered by
drinking or eating too much, by surgery, by "crash" diets, and
occasionally by trauma to a joint.

Uric acid crystals can collect in the urine, forming gravel or stones.
This development happens most often in people who pass too little
fluid from thier bodies. People with gout may ahve high blood
pressure or kidney infections, both of which can cause kidney damage.
Thus, the physician must watch for the teltale signs of such damage
and begin proper treatment if necessary.

MEDICATION

Three kinds of medication are used in treating gout. One catagory
(Colchicine, and certain NAISDs) controls the inflammation, A second
catagory, uricosuric agents, increased the body's ability to eliminate
uric acid by way of the urine, thus lowering the amount of uric acid
in the blood. The third kind of medication (allopurinol) decreases
uric acid levels in the blood by reducing the rate at which the body
produces it.

DIET

Myths abound concering the relationship between diet and gout.
HERE ARE THE FACTS:

1. A person who is overweight should develop a weight-loss
program under a doctor's supervision. The person should not
fast or try to diet too severily.
2. Because a few foods tend to raise the uric acid level in the
blood, a doctor may caution a person with gout to avoid
eating them. These foods include organ meats such as kidneys,
liver, and sweetbreads, as well as sardines, anchovies and meat
extracts.
3. A person with gout does NOT need to avoid coffee and tea.
Alcohol consumed in moderation (i.e., about two ounces of hard
liquor, a can of beer, or a glass of wine per day) is permitted.
4. A high daily intake of non-alcoholic fluids is recommended (a
minimum of two quarts).




RELATIVE PURINE CONTENT OF COMMON FOODS

GROUP A: (Foods with a high purine concentration)
Liver Gravies Sweetbreads Broths
Mussels Fish roe Anchovies Kidney
Sardines Brains Herring Heart

GROUP B: (Foods with a moderate purine concentration)
Meats Peas Lentils Mushrooms
Yeast Beans Spinish Cauliflower
Fowl Fish Asperagus Whole grain cereals

GROUP C: (Foods with negligible amounts of purine)
Fruits Milk Cheese Eggs
Spices and condiments (including salt and vinegar)
Refined cereals and cereal products
Butter and fats (in moderation) Nuts
Sugar and sweets Clear vegetable soups
Vegetables (except as noted above)

ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote in message news:<20040622095046.23018.00000396@mb-m07.aol.com>...
question. Allow me to be more clear:

1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved
around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the
side of my foot and back.

2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last?
Forever? Another five days? A month?

3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all
about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and
medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to
what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and
worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I
can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal
time-frame for having this intense pain?

Thanks!

ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote in message news:<20040622095046.23018.00000396@mb-m07.aol.com>...
question. Allow me to be more clear:

1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved
around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the
side of my foot and back.

2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last?
Forever? Another five days? A month?

3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all
about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and
medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to
what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and
worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I
can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal
time-frame for having this intense pain?

Thanks!

Well you should have asked your doctor ..

He seems to be adept at telling you there is nothing HE can actually .. DO ..
but he should have been able to tell you how long an attack can last ..

But in the meantime ... it seems hemodilution .. mentioned in the article /
phlebotomy .. IS used for .. pain ..

http://tinyurl.com/2g4f5

The rest of the urls' speak to hemodilution in general ..

http://tinyurl.com/3ye4k

http://tinyurl.com/3dvsv

http://tinyurl.com/ythha

http://tinyurl.com/2tsmp

http://tinyurl.com/2zuk4

http://tinyurl.com/35hhw

http://tinyurl.com/2y4s7

http://tinyurl.com/23ljt

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

In <f7ec8143.0406221244.e003fd5@posting.google.com> ,
emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) writes:

be close to pain-free within 3 days -- minor joint pain goes on
for about two months afterwards.

I had a couple of very minor attacks over the last couple
of years and then bad ones in December and February.
Both were real attention-getters and made me serious
about avoiding another one. Did well for about three
months but fell off the diet wagon last month and had
another minor attack. It's that extra beer or Shimp
Tempura when I've had fish or a turkey the same week
that does me in. I'm getting better at sensing my body.
In my bod, increasing lower back pain is the signal to
clean up my diet and drinking act. Look for a signal of
your own.

Maybe there's nothing new down below but the following
should help within a couple of days (decreased pain will
linger for a couple of weeks though):

1. During any attack, increase your water intake beyond 3
quarts per day. (Minimum of 1/2 ounce of drinking water per
pound of body weight in each 24 hours.)

2. Place a moist compress on the joint every hour. Alternate
cold to help with pain and warm to help get the crystals back
into solution (not too effective but anything is a step in the
right direction. If it's a joint in the legs or feet, use a cane to
keep weight off the joint.)

3. Avoid aspirin or Tylenol -- use Ibuprophen only if it helps
with the pain. When it doesn't help, it's probably worth avoiding.
(Aspirin, Tylenol, alcohol and most alkaloid drugs slow down
the elimination of Uric Acid.)

4. A lot of people report that eating sour chrerries helps --
1/2 pound of fresh cherries for a day or two. Or, a can of
Musselman's unsweetened sour pitted cherries. I have tried
the 'cherry cure'--may have helped but, they are sour enough
to give one something else to think about.

5. Diet: Stop any weight-loss diet until the attack is over.
Stop booze. Stop purine producing foods (beans, meat, fish
& foul) until you've got the attack arrested. Get protein
from no-fat dairy or eggs. Avoid fat. Avoid fish and any
game. Eat/drink 'alkaline-ash' foods (Orange juice, lemon
juice, bananas, avocados, most veggies except spinach &
cauliflower.)

6. Unless your doctor says otherwise, stop diuretics or any
laxative or purgative colon therapy that will dehydrate your
body. Increase your fiber intake. Some gout victims swear
by a large garlic-fennel seed enema though and that may
help. I tried it for both major attacks--don't know if it
helped but I did smell of garlic for a couple of days.

7. I've got a buddy that swears by taking a potassium pill and
drinking a couple of quarts of water while sitting in a sauna
for an hour. Have never tried that one.

8. If you can't arrest an attack, see your doctor and ask
about short term Colchicine. I've not gone this route. My
doctor says it isn't pleasant--they keep increasing the dose
until it works or the vomiting becomes too severe!

Second, once you're over the attack, you should be able to
control things with a sensible diet. A couple of large glasses
of milk each day & 2-3 quarts of water. Learn to like 1.5%
fat Cottage Cheese & veggies. Avoid fish and cold cuts. Eat
the purine foods in moderation--count servings of beef, chicken
and pork each week and stay within an allowance that works.
If this doesn't do it you should ask your doctor to place you
on daily Allopurinol.

I think some of the diet info for gout victims is a bit extreme
and has been influenced by the anti-purine folks (who have
issues with other diseases.) I'm really feeling my own way
on this stuff. Since I'm a third time victim, in the last six
months I'm no expert in living without an attack.

Hope this helps....Mike

John,

Here is a remedy for Gout that should give you relief with in 48 hours.
There are those that will scoff at it, but it works. Apple Pectin You can
find it in most health food store. Take 3 or 4 500mg tablets twice a day
for the first two days then you can drop back to a couple a day. You can
not over dose and it will not depress you or elevate you. You can take it
with any other meds you might be taking. The pectin binds with the gout
crystals and is removed from you body in the urine.
Good Luck

William Heritage


"John Prince" <emailjohnprince@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f7ec8143.0406220459.5364a0b5@posting.google.c om...