On Sep 17, 5:01 pm, aver...@webtv.net (mike avera) wrote:

I'm surprised the lady didn't recommend an MRI or something...not that
those things are fool-proof, but they usually help better ascertain
the particulars of a situation...I work in an office environment and
usually have similar neck and shoulder issues, only not to the extent
you describe (the closest case is a slight and very rare tingling in
the left arm, hand, and even ring and middle fingers), losing sleep
and such...so continuing to lift hasn't been bad for me -- not that I
can determine, anyway -- and, actually, working out seems to
ameliorate such issues arising from being sedentary with bad
posture.....

I've only been to a chiropractor once, and it was for a back
realignment or something, basically a nice good massage, and I felt
much better immediately afterwards, even though I didn't go in for a
specific pain or issue but just wanted to try out their $20 promo, so
I've no prejudice against chiros, no...I think chiros are a bit like
nutritionists and dieticians, insofar as they are really "careful"
about things we normally take for granted because most of us are not
that "fragile" (until old age)...kinda like how the straight-legged
bent-over touch-touch stretch can be very bad for the lower backs of
some people though many seem to have no problems with it....

So I'd recommend that you continue lifting, only be extremely careful
about it -- fairly slow, in constant awareness of your body and
anything it might be "saying"...one thing, though; when I first
started doing bent-over lateral raises (for the rear delts) I actually
caught a neck-shoulder strain...and it was proper form I was using,
too -- at least according to the book "Strength Training Anatomy,"
which turned out to be improper, according to Cynthia Humphreys' (a
chiropractor) "Shoulder Injuries & Weight Training: Reducing Your
Risk"!

So, you know what: after all's said and done, you really just have to
try and find out for yourself. There's all kinds of advice, but no
guarantee that any would apply, or apply best.

Good luck.

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1190139667.846833.20500@o80g2000hse.googlegro ups.com...

Speaking as a certified non-authority in any kind of medicine, I am very
troubled with your symptoms and your current modality of treating them. I've
had pinched nerves and what you've described exactly mimics what I went
through. I was annoyed at first, but then crippled by the same pain around
my neck and shoulders and deadness in my fingers. I went to my neurologist
and he suggested surgery, if, after a time on muscle relaxors and pain meds,
I was not better. After months of heavy meds (which was dandy with me at the
time) I finally asked for surgery. It cleared up the whole issue and
returned me to full function. Since then I've popped a few more discs and
some gave me trouble, most did not. I never again elected to more than meds.
All the others resolved within six months. But I'd still have done the first
one. It wasn't going away on its own. So, use your own judgment on when to
go in for surgery, but do NOT continue to exercise at anything by a rate
determined by your doctor!!! You can cripple yourself.
I also have found some relief from acupuncture. It's amazing in that you
don't understand how it works until you have it, then it make absolute
sense. When you feel all those blocked points open up for the first time in
months, you'll be knocked out, not just mentally, but physically. Don't try
to drive home. I fell asleep for 45 min. after my first session, as did my
partner in the study. She and I fell asleep head to head in the back of a
car on the way home. We awoke at exactly the same time and felt as if we'd
slept for a week, but this was in the 1970's and we had the guy who worked
on Joe Namath's knee, if you remember him from the NY Jets. It was the first
use of acupuncture in the USA, at least in a legal experimental way. It was
done under the auspices of the University of Texas at San Antonio. We were
guinea pigs, and very lucky ones, I might add. On the down side, it's not a
one time procedure. Be careful you trust who is doing the acupuncture.
Other than that, it's a breeze!

Cabbi

The numbness in his arm and fingers are syptoms of nerve root compression
from his spine - not sore muscles. Do some research into how chiropractors
have caused further damage and death. Chiropractors have their uses, in
certain conditions, but the symptoms of the OP suggests he needs tests to
exclude any spinal damage.

Further exercising could cause more damage.

It amazes me how you folks believe that chiropractors can heal anything.

Cheers
Ron

"Ron" <ronjs@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46f0a4e8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Harv

On Sep 18, 7:38 pm, "Cabbi" <ca...@aol.com> wrote:
Many major american universities offer acupuncture in their
hospitals. Also, there are acupuncture practice laws in place in 48
states.
Choose a Licensed Acupuncturist (L.Ac) because most have 4 years of
training. Many MD's and DC's have between 100-200 hours.

The National Institutes of Health, WHO, and many other organizations
have given their blessing to Acupuncture. Its very safe and very
effective.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:21:07 -0700, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:



One thing about Chiropractors - most people who have used one either
love them or hate them. When I discuss Chiropractors with people I
rarely find people who are in the middle. And, I would guess that is
because they can be beneficial for some conditions and in other cases
do nothing or even make the condition worse.
In my youth, I was a distance runner/ road racer (10K - 30:31). My
training regime would take me up to 90 miles a week in the
off/strength building season. Typically we'd run with the traffic.
Given the fact that the roads (at least in New England) are crown
shaped - the center is higher than the sides. Thus, running with the
traffic results in the left side of the body having a slightly shorter
distance to meet the road than does the right side of the body. After
thousands of miles of running subjected to this slight difference
there is an effect on the bone structure - especially of the lower
body. After 10 years of running at about age 25 I developed a pain in
my lower back on the right side. X-Rays revealed that my pelvic bone
was turned and lower. Medical science did nothing for me - nothing at
all. I won't ramble away with all the details of my experience with an
orthopedic doc but it was a waste of time and money. It was almost a
last resort, like desperation, that I took a friends advice and went
to a chiropractor. Walking in I was in pain and coming out I had at
least 50% relief. Then over the next 24-36 hours the remaining pain
dissipated. Following that first session I returned on a monthly basis
and the treatments kept me on my training schedule.
Skip forward 20 years or so and I have developed pain in my left knee.
It just started one day and got progressively worse over a period of a
few weeks. When the pain became too much to handle I decided I better
get it checked out. I saw an orthopedic doc and he said it was bone
chips and I'd need surgery. Again I went back to a chiropractor (not
the same one) and had it checked out. The Chiropractor said I did not
need surgery and he could treat this with a variety of methods that
would result in a cure. To make a long story short - by the time I got
to the third appointment (about 10 days later) he had made the
condition much worse. Of course he blamed this on me saying that I
must not be following all his home therapy, etc. In the end I had
arthroscopic surgery and the condition was corrected. I now have only
minor pain from time-to-time.
Had my experience been limited to my first chiropractor I would think
they were gods. Just the same, if my experience had been limited to
the second guy I would think they were a bunch of clowns. So much
depends on the condition itself, and then, the chiropractor one ends
up with. Some conditions can be corrected through chiropractic therapy
and some cannot. And, there are pretty good chiropractors and there
are some bad ones.

"Ron" <ronjs@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46f0a4e8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...


Death? Are these the same people who are dying from using anabolic steroids
too? I would LOVE to hear your "informed" opinon on them.

Chiropractors have their uses, in
No one stated anything of the sort. The idea that you think you can make a
diagnosis from his post is as ludicrous as your claim to be in the "health"
field. Let's face it, you are just another shit talking anonymous dolt who
is unwilling to back up anything with real life facts.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"The One True Zhen Jue" <Andrew_Kingoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1190203352.021010.100010@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
PLEASE don't post anything like this. "Ron" the "clinician," who can't post
his real name etc., will tell you that thousands are killed with acupuncture
needles every year.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

On Sep 19, 12:26 am, "Ron" <ro...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
Oh, I forgot. You *exaaaaaamined* the OP. My bad.

Anything but whatchu got, domass. ;o)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Move it along.

--
Curt

On Sep 19, 7:32 am, "Harvey R. Stone" <hrst...@swbell.net> wrote:
I hope your neck falls off.

....

i KEED! i KEED!

--

Thanks JoeB,,,, Interesting reading and as Walter C. used to say,,, and
thats the way it is.
Harv

Ps Is it a state law about which side of the road you can run on??

"Joe B" <mong-gu-di-fu@-remove-rock.com> wrote in message
news:9lv2f3t7n8d24fn2tdim770p8vqkc1jplg@4ax.com...

Chiropractors, iridologists, reflexologists, homeopaths, etc.,
etc. all depend upon two realities: (1) almost everything that
goes wrong with our bodies will heal spontaneously, and (2)
placebo effect results not only from sugar pills but also from
various mystical pseudotherapeutic protocols.

When perceived healing is coincident with "treatment", the
practitioner takes credit and the patient tells his/her friends.
When the situation doesn't improve or gets worse, the
practitioner says "you didn't get to me soon enough", or "you
haven't assiduously done what I told you to do", and the patient
leaves treatment.

IN ALL CASES, such therapists are bereft of diagnostic skills
but wonderfully adept at creating a sense of satisfaction in the
patient. In a generally healthy patient there is nothing wrong
with that - in fact, it's a major benefit of chiropractic, etc.
and formal training includes techniques for achieving such
feelings in patients regardless of therapeutic realities. But
there is one serious problem: when a patient is grievously ill,
quackery absorbs the two most critical resources: time and money.

Yes, there is proof...
Present the same "diagnostic" data to multiple practioners of
these "healing arts" (such as the same full-spine X-ray to
multiple chiropractors), and the result will rarely be the same
diagnosis. This has been proven many times as chiropractors
search X-rays for "subluxations" reported by their peers.

There will always be anecdotes about chiropractors who cured
various desperate conditions, and they are based upon some
combination of three possibilities. The practitioner may have
evolved into a semi-competent physical therapist and did
something specific that the patient needed. Or, the placebo
effect worked its miracles. Or, finally, time permitted
spontaneous healing. Such success requires that the
practitioner, in his/her ignorance, did not do anything to
impede it.

I personally know chiropractors who, in their eighth decade
(like me) agree with all of the above. One in particular, the
brother of a close friend, does not even have a high school
diploma. Many years ago he left his job as a shoe salesman and
attended four months of Palmer, and was succesful - then when
the laws became tougher he was grandfathered in. Now he's a
great-grandfather, in a comfortable retirement hoping he helped
someone, somewhere, and that his entire "professional" career
was not a total fraud. It was, and he knows it - with enough
wine in him he admits it.

Ike
(not in the medical industry, but been there - done that)

On Sep 20, 1:59 pm, Ike <binarydot...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.cafepress.com/cebo

You really should visit. Personally, I recommend the journal. ;o)

--
Curt

"Ron" <ronjs@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46f0a4e8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Cabbi

"Cabbi" <cabbi@aol.com> wrote in message
news:13fc3r0cg451i63@corp.supernews.com...
Ron, do you work in the health feild? Have you ever been to a Chiropractor?
Have you been to more than one? What condition did you go for? Do you
believe everything that you read? Why are you here anyway?

"t" <tools22@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:EP-dneAgRs2m_GvbnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
I indeed have been to chiropractors and am aware that many do not do proper
diagnostic tests. An Xray rarely picks up spinal damage.

I have been to chiropractors, for various conditions in the past.

The last time I went, was for neck pain which turned out to be a large
postero lateral disc herniation with nerve root compression with the
symptoms of the original poster - made much worse by the chiropractor. An
Xray by the chiropractor did not pick it up. It was diagnosed by
conventional medicine with a CT scan.

Why the need for sarcasm? I would say I am more widely read than you are.

I have been a registered male nurse for over 30 years and also hold degrees
in Arts and Science besides my registered nursing qualifications, and prior
to that, was a medic in Vietnam with the Australian Army.

I am here because I have been weightlifting for many years and it is
frustrating to see ppl advise someone to ignore/exclude tests that may
indicate their condition is more serious than they realize.

The body gives warning signs, which if ignored can lead to serious permanent
damage.

What are you here for?

There are many orthopaedic surgeons whom treat conservatively rather than
use the knife for spinal injuries.

I have treated many patients with injuries that have stated they will never
ever go back to a chiropractor again.

I don't know what standards your chiropractors have over there. But recently
a general practictioner here (he was qualified also a chiropractor) was
performing manipulations on people without conducting relevant tests. He has
now be deregistered as a doctor and has lost a lucrative practice.

So what point are you attempting to make?

Cheers

Ron

Ron wrote:

Ron - please stick around. Every once in a while someone raises
the chiro issue, and your informed viewpoint will be welcome.

"Ron" <ronjs@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46f68328$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

"t" <tools22@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't seen you in the arthritis group until now.

Have YOU been to a chiropractor?
What condition did YOU go for?
Why are YOU here anyway?

"Ron" <ronjs@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46f68328$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Same with ALL versions of doctors.


As with other doctors, they make mistakes.
Is it assumed that any other doctor would automatically do a CT scan?
Actually, I think most would.

The problem with many or most Chiropractors is they "manipulate" junctures.
The ones I know of who are VERY successful do standard testing of all types
and don't "crack" but use heat and massage and relaxants.