My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an enlarged
heart. What I have been able to learn (guess) is that the heart condition
may be caused by the emphysema -- not getting enough oxygen into the blood
from breathing causes heart to pump harder. (This is my guess from reading
online... anyone please correct me if wrong.)

My question is... I wonder if the emphysema was caused by arthritis? There
is no history of smoking or exposure to dust or chemicals - the usual cause
of emphysema.

Thanks.

Bob

There are rare conditions that are rheumatological (autoimmune) that can
cause COPD, emphysema and similar breathing problems. Your sister might
do well to get a referral to a major medical clinic rheumatological
department to get screened for the possibility of an autoimmune
vasculitis or similar autoimmune condition.

Bruce

Mail Man Bob wrote:

enlarged
heart. <<

The heart is a muscle .. when a muscle overworks it becomes .. larger.

As in people who throw bales all day .. one arm gets noticably larger
than the other.

When the blood gets thicker than usual the heart has to pump harder.

This is accumulative over the years .. minor increase of blood
viscosity has the heart working a wee bit harder than usual .. hence
the muscle gets larger.

This increased viscosity is caused by the increased red blood cell
count / pseudopolycythemia ..


may be caused by the emphysema <<

BOTH caused BY the increased red blood cell production /
polycythemia / erythrocytosis / hemochromatosis.


from breathing causes heart to pump harder. <<

Yes it is a vicious .. circle.
Once the blood becomes too viscous the body begins to compensate in
various ways to decrease this increase of red blood cells.


online... anyone please correct me if wrong.) <<

You will notice their interventions seem to address .. red blood cell
production.

There
is no history of smoking or exposure to dust or chemicals - the usual
cause
of emphysema.<<

Smoking causes polycythemia .. 'altitude' causes polycythemia .. and
altitude ALSO .. predicts .. arthritis.

Sooo .. seeing that altitude causes / predicts arthritis .. and seeing
altitude causes polycythemia / increased red blood cell production /
erythrocytosis / hemochromatosis .. and seeing erythrocytosis is
ALSO .. present IN .. emphysema .. and seeing the .. **recovery**
afforded to people with COPD when .. bloodlet .. ?

Logically one should look into the cheapest form and safest form OF ..
control .. OF .. erythrocytosis ..

THAT is what .. they .. do ..

WHY wouldn't YOU .. do .. it .. ?

Look into iron reduction therapy which generally includes a low iron
restricted diet , iron binding substances and phlebotomy { iron
reduction therapy ]

Chest 1990 Nov;98(5):1073-7


Exercise performance of polycythemic chronic obstructive pulmonary
disease
patients. Effect of phlebotomies.


Chetty KG, Light RW, Stansbury DW, Milne N


Department of Medicine, VA Medical Center, Long Beach, CA 90822.


The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of
phlebotomy
on the exercise tolerance and right and left ventricular ejection
fraction of polycythemic patients with chronic obstructive
pulmonary
disease. Ten patients with COPD (mean FEV1 = 1.32 +/- 0.55 L) and
polycythemia (mean Hct = 62 +/- 3 percent) were studied before and
after their hematocrits had been reduced to approximately 50
percent.
Post-phlebotomy the maximal oxygen consumption increased from 1.09
+/-
0.34 L/min to 1.26 +/- 0.43 L/min (p less than 0.05) and the
maximum
workload increased from 56.5 +/- 32.6 watts to 74.5 +/- 23.4 watts
(p
less than 0.05). The increase in the exercise tolerance appeared to
be
primarily due to an increased cardiac output at Emax. There was no
relationship between the increases in the upright exercise
capacity
and changes in the supine ejection fractions of the right or left
ventricular either at rest or during exercise.


PMID: 2225946, UI: 91030710

__________________________________________________ _______________



Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical terminolgies, so sorry if I misunderstood...

Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged heart? Just trying to follow you.

Bob


"ironjustice" <teamtanner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1187542894.934382.314380@i38g2000prf.googlegr oups.com...

Yes .. cites upon request ..

If one looks at the human model of those above illnesses .. they all
share the same .. symptoms .. increased red blood cell production ..

Acute Mountain Sickness would be a good place to start ..


<<snip>>
the death rate was almost 55% vs. 0%
<<snip>>


Hypervolemia .. and .. erythrocytosis / polycythemia / increased red
blood cell production / increased blood viscosity / thick blood ..
are
ONE and the .. same.


"hypervolemia, polycythemia, high blood viscosity"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----


http://tinyurl.com/35dug


<<snip>>
This is the largest published study measuring blood volume and
patient
outcomes. Congestive heart failure is the number one cause for
admission to
hospitals for patients over 65 years of age and results in annual
healthcare
costs exceeding $38 billion.


The study followed severely ill congestive heart failure patients for
a median
follow up of 719 days. During the first year, the major finding was a
39% death
rate in patients that were hypervolemic (excess blood volume) vs. 0%
death rate
for those who were normovolemic/hypovolemic (normal blood volume/
mildly reduced
blood volume). For those hypervolemic patients that were followed for
a median
duration of 719 days, the death rate was almost 55% vs. 0% for those
patients
who were normovolemic to slightly hypovolemic.
<<snip>>


----------------------------------------------------------------
Definitions of hypervolemia on the Web:


a blood disorder consisting of an increase in the volume of
circulating blood
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/98/1/384


"hypervolemia, polycythemia, high blood viscosity"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The only treatment for thick blood is to be bled."


· the production of red blood cells, which carry oxygen through the
body, increase as the body acclimates to high altitude, allowing more
oxygen to be "grabbed" from every breath.


The body also responds to the lower oxygen levels by putting more red
blood cells into circulation. Up to a point, this is a good thing.
However, if it goes too far, the blood becomes thick and prone to
clotting. Clots which get dislodged float around and can cause
strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms. The only treatment
for thick blood is to be bled.


http://www.k2news.com/lesson21.htm




Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

"Mail Man Bob" <no@where.com> wrote in message
news:Bf0yi.494$Uf7.275@trnddc06...
Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical
terminolgies, so sorry if I misunderstood...

Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged
heart? Just trying to follow you.

Bob

hi bob,

sigh . . . you'd be better off listening to what bruce had to offer and
disregarding whatever tom says to you. tom has a chronic longterm history
of being reported, all over the web, as an incorrigible crackpot who
bombards newsgroups and support groups with his obsession about iron being
the cause of all the world's ills. believing what tom says at face value,
and acting upon it, can be medically dangerous. tom is not a doctor and is
no authority of merit. tom really is a mindless, egotistical crackpot who
doesn't care about the damage he might cause in the health of unwary others.

just clueing you in, guy.

kate


"ironjustice" <teamtanner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187542894.934382.314380@i38g2000prf.googlegr oups.com...

On Aug 19, 7:06 pm, Joan Carter <spamf...@sentex.ca> wrote: Kate is so
right on this one. <<

Meet .. Joan .. an ex 'Canadian' .. nurse ..

Need I .. say .. more .. ?

She has been shown up by ME .. numerous times .. and THAT according to
her OWN words .. doesn't bode too well .. because .. ? .. I have no ..
merit ..

If I have no merit .. AND ... I have kicked HER arse more than once
IN .. her .. own .. profession .. MEANS .. ? .. she ain't worth ..
shite .. based ON her OWN .. criteria .. **merit** ..

Merit .. something SHE .. doesn't .. have ..

Cites available upon .. request.

Bettered by a .. loon ..

She should actually feel pretty .. useless.

According to her OWN .. criteria .. merit ..

She has actually told people NOT to use .. blood increasing substances
to treat open festering sores .. WHEN .. in FACT .. that is
PRECISELY .. the treatment to .. use.

She is more than .. useless .. she could actually cause .. increased
suffering ..

Something she ACCUSES .. me .. of .. but is PROVEN in her .. case.

Ask her to prove it in .. mine ..

She can't and therefore it makes her a .. ? .. liar .. and a ..
loser ..

And married to a fatstupidlyingbaldguy ..

Can't get much .. worse ..

Oh yeah . I .. forgot ..

She is .. short ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

On Aug 19, 6:32 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:
Actually .. if you look at the post .. he was talking to .. ME.

He wasn't talking to some old cow who has nothing .. nothing ..
nothing .. good or useful to .. say .. about .. **anything** ..

And next time YOU .. ever .. mention .. my .. webpage .. you will NOT
walk away .. unscathed .. you **understand** ..

Now take your .. admitted BIASED .. athiest .. **opinion** and stick
it where the sun .. don't shine ..

Ya .. dig ..

And the NEXT time you come onto a post addressed to ME .. without a
medical study to back you .. up .. be prepared for some more ..
instant .. justice .. ya .. cow ..

Now .. stay the FK .. away from .. ME ..

Dig ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

The venesection / phlebotomy in those with COPD / emphysema .. leads
to 50% **increased** walking distance and 50% **increased** exercise
tolerance.

It also leads to decreased oxygen usage determined by those in the
warehouse who noticed the patients were no longer ordering oxygen.
The doctors and nurses didn't notice .. surprise .. surprise .. the
warehousemen .. did..

This is a low iron diet designed to lower iron levels in hepatitis
patients.

<<snip>>
The dietary allowance for Fe, as recommended by the Indian Council of
Medical Research is about 28 mg/d for males and about 30 mg/d for
females (Gopalan et al. 1989). In our specially formulated diet, we
decreased the Fe content of the diet to about 6·7 mg/d, without
compromising the energy and protein content of the diet. This diet
was
primarily rice-based with casein as the main protein source. It
contained the daily allowances for all food groups except for pulses
and meat.
<<snip>>
----------------------------------------------------------------

Chest 1990 Nov;98(5):1073-7


Exercise performance of polycythemic chronic obstructive pulmonary
disease patients.
Effect of phlebotomies.


Chetty KG, Light RW, Stansbury DW, Milne N


Department of Medicine, VA Medical Center, Long Beach, CA 90822.


The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of
phlebotomy
on the exercise tolerance and right and left ventricular ejection
fraction of polycythemic patients with chronic obstructive
pulmonary
disease. Ten patients with COPD (mean FEV1 = 1.32 +/- 0.55 L) and
polycythemia (mean Hct = 62 +/- 3 percent) were studied before and
after their hematocrits had been reduced to approximately 50
percent.
Post-phlebotomy the maximal oxygen consumption increased from 1.09
+/-
0.34 L/min to 1.26 +/- 0.43 L/min (p less than 0.05) and the
maximum
workload increased from 56.5 +/- 32.6 watts to 74.5 +/- 23.4 watts
(p
less than 0.05). The increase in the exercise tolerance appeared
to
be
primarily due to an increased cardiac output at Emax. There was no
relationship between the increases in the upright exercise
capacity
and changes in the supine ejection fractions of the right or left
ventricular either at rest or during exercise.


PMID: 2225946, UI: 91030710


__________________________________________________ _______________


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Bob wrote:


Numbnutz tommy has absolutely no understanding of medicine or terminologies.
He posts totally unrelated articles from this website and that journal.




Numbnuts doesn't know what he saying. He just rants and raves about iron
being the ONLY cause of every disease known to medical science. That's why
you have a problem following him. <g>


.... Checking reality of numnuts tom's message ... ... ... test failed.

<ironjustice@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1187583281.963697.9940@e9g2000prf.googlegroup s.com...
On Aug 19, 6:32 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:
Actually .. if you look at the post .. he was talking to .. ME.

He wasn't talking to some old cow who has nothing .. nothing ..
nothing .. good or useful to .. say .. about .. **anything** ..

And next time YOU .. ever .. mention .. my .. webpage .. you will NOT
walk away .. unscathed .. you **understand** ..

Now take your .. admitted BIASED .. athiest .. **opinion** and stick
it where the sun .. don't shine ..

Ya .. dig ..

And the NEXT time you come onto a post addressed to ME .. without a
medical study to back you .. up .. be prepared for some more ..
instant .. justice .. ya .. cow ..

Now .. stay the FK .. away from .. ME ..

Dig ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's saying
jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but
veggies was not good for the body/temple, then why did he bless the 2 fish
and 5 loaves and turn them into enough fish and bread to feed 5000? (if
you can, try reading luke 9:13-17.) did he want to poison the 5000 people
who came to hear him preach???? hmmmm . . . i don't think sooooo.

oh, and . . . yada, yada, yada, in response to the tantrum you just had.
you are soooooo scary! NOT! now, go have a time-out! you need one! (i'm
thinking, maybe 20 or 30 years of time-out should do it. i'll gladly set my
egg timer for you and let you know when it rings off.)

kate
(it all just goes to show you how rust for brains thinks, or doesn't think,
or thinks he's thinking, or is actually mindless.)

Kate wrote:


Numbnutz can't even explain why Jesus partook of the Pascal Lamb at the Last
Supper.

Numbnuts wrote:


Numbnutz still hasn't figured out that the internet is one, big meeting
ground and no one, including numbnutz, has exclusive rights to anything.
He's just to stupid to start his own blog and lock out anyone he doesn't
like.



And you're the BULL with a pile of you-know-what.



Only your grave, and soon I hope.


.... numbnutz tommy's destroyed brain is no match for reasoning humans.

but.. blah .. blah . blah .. blah .. blah . ..... blah <<

Keep your religious shite .. IN .. the religious groups .. ya
freakin' .. nutbar ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

On Aug 20, 12:08 am, "california_chief"
<Fire_Chief@Jamacha_Junction_FD.ca.us> wrote: Only your grave, and
soon I hope. <<

You'd better hope we never .. meet .. cowboy ..

Being you're a .. gimp .. and all .. it will not fare too .. well ..

Let me use a sentence my son used on someone .. just like .. you ..

"you talk to may old man like that again .. and I'm going to stomp
your fkg .. head" ..

Kinda made me .. proud ..

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:

Hey Tommah, is it true that you're not allowed to go near children or
any location children may be at?

Just curious...

spodosaurus wrote:

Wonder how often he has to check in with his probation officer?

Does Canada have a registry like the US does?



We all are. <g>


.... numbnuts tommy gets change back when he posts his two cents worth.

On Aug 20, 7:14 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote:
Hey Tommah, is it true that you're not allowed to go near children or
any location children may be at? <<

No .. it is not .. true ..

Just like it isn't .. true .. that I'm not allowed to .. visit ..
YOU ..

Up close and personal .. sort of hands on type of stuff ..

Do you know what hands on .. means .. ?

It is a type of .. teaching ..

Oh .. yeah .. that is right .. somebody showed you that type of
teaching .. and you seemed to be the .. worse for .. wear ..

If I remember .. correctly ..

You don't ..learn BY.. that type of teaching very well .. obviously.

You are what those teachers call .. stupid.

They don't like to use that word much .. because most people ..
learn .. BY that .. usually effective .. method ..

But it seems you .. don't ..

Does it ..

Evidence based ..

Someone kicks the sht right out of you to the point you whine like
some btch on the internet .. about it .. and THEN .. you hint at ..
what .. pedophilia .. ? .. child beatings .. what .. ?

Come .. out .. and .. say .. it .. you fkg .. little .. creep ..

So .. everyone .. can SEE exactly WHY someone beat you to a ..
pulp ..

Maybe then OTHERS will tell you to keep your whining little .. "oh I
got beat up bad being a hero .. " .. sht .. to yourself ..

Because .. buddy .. by what I've seen of .. you .. you got EXACTLY
what you so .. **richly** .. deserved / deserve.

Heh .. heh ..

And by the looks of it .. it is going to happen again .. by someone ..
somewhere .. because .. ? .. you haven't .. learned .. nothing ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
That'd be great! I'd actually REALLY appreciate getting to meet you.
When can I expect a visit? I'm hoping soon.

Yeah, it's why you can't go near kids anymore

What would you like to .. know .. chief ..

Did I commit any .. crimes .. ?

What kind of .. crimes .. chief ..

I have a record of .. violence ..

Is that a .. surprise .. ?

I have more records .. chief ..

What do you think is .. pertinent ..

I think the .. violence .. is .. pertinent .. IN .. this .. thread ..

Any .. other .. crimes .. YOU .. think are .. pertinent .. ?

Name .. them ..

Then we can .. speak .. about .. them ..

Ok .. chief .. ?

Good ..


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk