I've just read the Leung B5 study (http://www.kerots.com/forskning.htm) and I've noticed something that has, to my knowledge, never
been pointed out about it before.
It specifically states "Preliminary studies by the author suggest that together with pantothenic acid, biotin as well as
nicotinamide help to further improve the therapeutic results. By themselves alone they are far less effective in helping acne
patients than with pantothenic acid".

It also goes on to say "there are reports showing that acne may be induced by administartion of large doses of vitamin B12 alone or
in combination with B6. Cessation of the administration of these vitamins will bring a halt to the acne eruptions"

I know the B12/B6 thing has been discussed here before, but my point is this: if you've been taking B5 without any success it might
be worth adding nicotinamide/niacinamide (vitamin B3) and biotin. Also if you're taking a general B vitamin at the same time you
might want to ditch it if it contains large amounts (relative to the RDA) of B6 and B12.

Jim

Right, the hunt is on for a good quality multi-vitamin/mineral with low
doses of B6/B12. Anyone? Preferably with mega-doses of other beneficial
vits/minerals.

I have until 2 weeks ago been taking Life Extension Mix ("LEM"):
http://www.lef.org/prod_desc/lifemixb.htm

This contains 100 mg/5000% RDA of B6 and 600 mcg/10,000% of B12, along with
Biotin and Niacin. I didn't connect until 2 weeks ago that my recent rise
in acne since Jan seemed to coincide with starting LEM. I thought it was
just Accutane wearing off from a few years ago when I stopped.

If I stop taking LEM, how long would you expect it to take for my body's B6
& B12 levels to fall back to normal levels and for me to see if acne goes
back to normal? I can then do a challenge and test for a limited period to
see if LEM is a contributor, but I need to know how long to wait at the
most.

Thanks.


"Kita" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3F126F5D.6050001@privacy.net...

Acnonymous wrote:

Can't say I know a multi without 6 or 12. Really, even Leung's camp
didn't suggest forgoing them altogether.

Twinlab's Allergy Multi-Caps are the popular multi for the skin impaired
<g>, since they don't contain iodine or other acne causing fillers. They
contain 50mg of b6 and 100mcg of b12.

*Assuming* the 6 and 12 are causing you problems, any excess is going to
be pee'd out unless you take megadoses. If any excess is stored in your
organs (if you did take megadoses), it should be out of your system
within days, and any side effects should improve within a few weeks.

It's far more likely that the Iodine in your supplement (75mcg), the
soy, the PABA or any number of the other ingredients, is causing
problems, imho.

GL though, I hope you find whatever is causing problems.

"Kita" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3F16C9ED.5050205@privacy.net...
Are these amounts pretty safe? I wonder if you know/can guess what amounts
Leung meant by "large doses"?

Are the amounts I mentioned classed as "megadoses"?

I've heard the Iodine acne is quite different to normal. What am I looking
for?

Soy causes acne? More info, please.

The Twinlab's Allergy Multi-Caps contain 25mg of PABA. Why is PABA a
problem and is 25mg too much?

Thanks!

Acnonymous wrote:

I believe he is referring to other studies (ones that refer to IV doses
of B-6 and B-12), here's the Leung article excerpt:

"Lipid metabolism is a complicated process, and is often intertwined
with other metabolic processes, sharing with them common coenzymes in
widely different reactions. When there is an increase in level of some
of these coenzymes, there may be a shift in the directions of some
ongoing reactions, and may affect lipid metabolism as a result. This can
manifest clinically as acne vulgaris. To illustrate this, there are
reports showing that acne may be induced by administration of large
doses of vitamin B12 alone or in combination with B6. Cessation of the
administration of these vitamins will bring a halt to the acne
eruptions. If the body is in a relative deficiency state in B6 and B12,
administration of the vitamins will enhance the reactions that involve
the participation of these vitamins. This will set up a chain of events,
some of which entail the participation of pantothenic acid. With the
total pantothenic acid pool fixed relative to an increase in other
vitamins, emphasis of any reaction involving pantothenic acid will
automatically mean a cutting back on other reactions that require it as
a coenzyme. This will often include those involving lipid metabolism,
resulting in a certain degree of deficiency in that metabolic process,
hence the increased incidence of acne vulgaris in these studies. "
(http://www.pantothenic-acid.com/acne_vulgaris.html)

Keep in mind that the study was not impartian or unbiased, and that he
randomly guessed at the 10g dose merely because Pauling used 10g of Vit
C as his recommendation. I would not look too deeply into the study as a
HG..

Pubmed had this:
"J Eur Acad Dermatol Venereol. 2001 Sep;15(5):484-5.
Rosacea fulminans triggered by high-dose vitamins B6 and B12.
Jansen T, Romiti R, Kreuter A, Altmeyer P.
Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Ruhr-University Bochum, Germany.

Rosacea fulminans is a rare variant of rosacea conglobata that
occurs almost exclusively in women well past adolescence. The aetiology
is unknown, although immunological, hormonal, and vascular factors have
been suggested. We report the case of a 17-year-old girl with rosacea
fulminans that was temporally associated with daily ingestion of
high-dose vitamin B supplements. The onset was sudden and cosmetically
disabling. The eruption improved when the vitamin supplement was
discontinued and a therapeutic regimen including isotretinoin and
methylprednisolone was introduced. It seems appropriate to consider the
possibility of such a vitamin B-triggered condition in cases of subjects
presenting new or exacerbating facial eruptions.

PMID: 11763399 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"


"In some studies intravenous (i.v.) dosing has been associated with
dermal abnormalities, e.g.
acne formation in some cases. Ten cases were reported by Puissant et al.
(1967) after series of
up to 12 injections with 5 mg of hydroxocobalamin, but not with
cyanocobalamin. The authors
suggest that degradation products, formed from the less stable
hydroxocobalamin, might have
been responsible for the acne formation, rather than the intact compound
(but no further data
provided).
One case of acneiform eruption, described as acne rosacea, was reported
for a 53 yr old women who used vitamin supplements containing 100 mg
vitamin B 6 and 100 µg vitamin B 12
and 10,000 IU vitamin A and an unknown amount of zinc. Upon
discontinuation of the
supplement a ‘dramatic’ improvement was observed. The author ascribe the
acne to the
vitamins B
6/B12without further testing (Sheretz, 1991)."
(http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/scf/out80d_en.pdf.)

"An eruption resembling acne rosacea that was temporally associated
with daily ingestion of high-dose B vitamin supplement. The eruption
failed to respond to the usual treatment regimens for rosacea, but
promptly improved when use of the vitamin supplement was discontinued.
- Cutis 1991 Aug;48(2):119-20 -- Acneiform eruption due to "megadose"
vitamins B6 and B12. -- Sherertz EF.

Deterioration of acne vulgaris or eruption of an acneiform exanthema
could be established during treatment with vitamin B6 and/or vitamin B12
in 14 patients. Females were by far the more frequently affected. The
appearance of skin symptoms, even outside the age groups typically
affected by acne vulgaris is characteristic. The clinical appearance of
acneiform exanthema occurring during treatment with vitamin B6 or B12
consists of loosely disseminated small papules or papulopustules on the
face (especially on the forehead and chin), on the upper parts of the
back and chest and spreading to the upper arm. The pathogensis of the
change is not yet certain. The acneiform rash generally fades within a
short time after vitamin B6 or vitamin B12 treatment has been stopped.
- MMW Munch Med Wochenschr 1976 Feb 6;118(6):155-60 -- The problem of
vitamin B6/B12 acne. A contribution on acne medicamentosa -- Braun-Falco
O, Lincke H. "



I don't think so. The above articles name one woman who had acne from it
(one is not statistically relevant in this case, imo), and she was
taking higher doses than you mentioned, i believe?

I don't know. (sorry). Personally I've never scene a correlation (salt
intake) in my own skin, but I don't buy iodine/iodide multi's, either..


Soy's a long subject Short version: it might be acting like estrogen
in your body.



Some people have reactions or allergies to PABA. YMMV.

Thanks Kita!

Well I've been off it for 2 weeks, and trying a lot of new things in tandem,
and the good news is that since I added Klear Action (clone of ProActiv) to
my regime, my acne has dramatically subsided/disappeared. Fingers crossed
it stays that way.

When it's clear, I'll reintroduce my multi-vit to see if that was
contributing or not, then slowly reintroduce other things I stopped, like
sleeping on my side with my cheek in the pillow!

"Kita" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3F174E01.9080503@privacy.net...

Acnonymous wrote:
Yeah, I think unless you're injecting the b-6 and b-12, you're okay.
The Klear Action should help 70-80%.
Good luck